Boss 302 was the motivation, not the ZL1

Shaker1

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So, they just accidentally kicked the ZL1 to the curb? Nice! Makes sense that they would want the 13 GT500 to outperform the Boss, given price considerations.
 
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Ry_Trapp0

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that statement came out after Al O's "ford fans should thank us" rant. no doubt in my mind that the '13 is in response to the ZL1, and no doubt in my mind that this statement is just a response to AL O's rant.
 

Shaker1

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SVT's track record of constant product improvement and exceeding customer expectations, even in the absence of a Camaro, gives Hameedi's statements credibility in my opinion. They needed no Camaro (2002-2009) to produce the 2003 Cobra or 2007 GT500. And the Boss, of course, is in a league of it's own.
 

GTSpartan

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SVT's track record of constant product improvement and exceeding customer expectations, even in the absence of a Camaro, gives Hameedi's statements credibility in my opinion. They needed no Camaro (2002-2009) to produce the 2003 Cobra or 2007 GT500. And the Boss, of course, is in a league of it's own.

Pretty sure the 2003 Cobra was a direct result of what the LS1s were doing to the prior Cobras. It just happened to launch after they disco'd the F bodies.

Anyway, all this back and forth makes for great marketing and lots of headlines. Good stuff indeed.
 

GarageLogic

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Pretty sure the 2003 Cobra was a direct result of what the LS1s were doing to the prior Cobras. It just happened to launch after they disco'd the F bodies.

Anyway, all this back and forth makes for great marketing and lots of headlines. Good stuff indeed.
I would agree. And that would give credence to the assertion that the 2013 GT500 was being developed well before Al O.'s memo tothe Camaro faithful. I suppose the idea that the 2013 is some sort of response to the ZL1 does make certain folks feel good, but it's doubtful if that was the case.
 

Sinister04L

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Riiiiight. And the '03 Cobra wasn't made because of the LS1's and the 2011 GT with the Coyote engine wasn't made because of the 426hp SS coming back to market right? All just coincidences. LOL.
 

Shaker1

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In the big picture I am sure it was a combination of factors, but keeping the GT500 a good step above the Boss does not ring untrue. But, if it makes the Chevy faithful happy to think that Ford actually set out to trounce the ZL1, and did, that is OK too!:lol:
 

Formula51

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I would agree. And that would give credence to the assertion that the 2013 GT500 was being developed well before Al O.'s memo tothe Camaro faithful. I suppose the idea that the 2013 is some sort of response to the ZL1 does make certain folks feel good, but it's doubtful if that was the case.

Are you being serious? You believe Ford did not know about the development of the now named ZL1 LONG LONG AGO when even the general public did? Or the fact that as it got closer to production it was being benchmarked against a GT500 SVT PP car.

The final horsepower rating, the optional electronic adjustable Bilsteins (possible result of magnetic ride on ZL1), the optional coolers (standard on ZL1), the price (ZL1 set the benchmark),etc. were certainly effected by the ZL1. How much is pretty impossible for people outside of Ford/SVT to know.

There is quite a serious competition going on between Chevy and Ford with the Camaro and Mustang right now and to think the two are not purposefully one-uping each other in power, content, price, etc. is laughable. This goes from the V6 all the way to the ZL1/GT500.
 
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Yellow Horse

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Riiiiight. And the '03 Cobra wasn't made because of the LS1's and the 2011 GT with the Coyote engine wasn't made because of the 426hp SS coming back to market right? All just coincidences. LOL.

:rollseyes

Look up how the 2003 Cobra came about after John Coletti rode in the 2002 Cobra that was never released. The 2003 Cobra was a natural move from the Lightning.

And I guess Ford was supposed to stay with a 4.6 forever? Ford has been testing heads and intakes for future 4v engines for years. This is all a culmination.

And it results in gouging GM in the ass today in performance. The 5.0 makes 85 HP per liter (they make 360 rwhp SAE or 425 at the crank) and the 6.2 makes a remarkable 68 HP per liter although not too bad for an engine designed in the 60's.

From a looks point of view the Camaro is the biggest insult to a piece of sheet metal ever formed. Interior, even wurst.
 

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that statement came out after Al O's "ford fans should thank us" rant. no doubt in my mind that the '13 is in response to the ZL1, and no doubt in my mind that this statement is just a response to AL O's rant.

I sorta half believed Ahmeed,Apu,or whatever his name is. Unless you're a dyed in the wool Shelby nut,the GT500 really didn't justify its price point since the introduction of the Boss.
 

Sinister04L

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:rollseyes

Look up how the 2003 Cobra came about after John Coletti rode in the 2002 Cobra that was never released. The 2003 Cobra was a natural move from the Lightning.

And I guess Ford was supposed to stay with a 4.6 forever? Ford has been testing heads and intakes for future 4v engines for years. This is all a culmination.

And it results in gouging GM in the ass today in performance. The 5.0 makes 85 HP per liter (they make 360 rwhp SAE or 425 at the crank) and the 6.2 makes a remarkable 68 HP per liter although not too bad for an engine designed in the 60's.

From a looks point of view the Camaro is the biggest insult to a piece of sheet metal ever formed. Interior, even wurst.

Yep all just coincidences you're right. Ford would never look at its direct competitor and design anything based on that. GM either. They're just off in their own little worlds and they just mysteriously one up each other. The V6 Mustang plodded along with its 210hp for 6 years then a year after the 300+hp V6 Camaro comes to market the Mustang V6 is making 300+ too. Purely coincidence. Same with the GT going from 300 to 400hp the year after the 426hp Camaro is introduced. I know, just random.

Are you seriously bringing up hp/liter arguments? I logged into SVTP and not VTEC YO right?

Looks are subjective. I love the Camaro's looks and the interior. I never liked the '05+ Mustang very much. I thought it was too bland. The GT500 was an improvement and the '13 GT500 is a knock out. Different strokes for different folks though.
 

average guy

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:rollseyes

Look up how the 2003 Cobra came about after John Coletti rode in the 2002 Cobra that was never released. The 2003 Cobra was a natural move from the Lightning.

And I guess Ford was supposed to stay with a 4.6 forever? Ford has been testing heads and intakes for future 4v engines for years. This is all a culmination.

And it results in gouging GM in the ass today in performance. The 5.0 makes 85 HP per liter (they make 360 rwhp SAE or 425 at the crank) and the 6.2 makes a remarkable 68 HP per liter although not too bad for an engine designed in the 60's.

From a looks point of view the Camaro is the biggest insult to a piece of sheet metal ever formed. Interior, even wurst.

I remember reading that the 03 Cobra was due to 01 underperforming fiasco. They took a hiatus and everything else is history.

Funny how, for years, Ford was given a hard time for using blowers. Sweet irony the ultimate Camaro and Vette rely on blowers. IMO, the 03 Cobra was a game changer like the Lightning. Just hard to see because the GT500 is such a worthy successor.
 

Ry_Trapp0

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I sorta half believed Ahmeed,Apu,or whatever his name is. Unless you're a dyed in the wool Shelby nut,the GT500 really didn't justify its price point since the introduction of the Boss.
then why did they wait a whole year after the 302 came out to do this? it's not like SVT didn't know what team mustang was doing over there. the GT500 is a faster car everywhere, straight line and road course.

really, lets look at this. the 2013, 650HP, 202MPH, 1.0+G skidpad, shelby GT500 is coming out 1 year AFTER the boss 302 has been released, and the SAME year(looks like ~4 months apart) as the camaro ZL1. and you guys really believe that these changes are in response to the boss 302, and that the released date coinciding with the ZL1 is purely a coincidence??? seriously.
 

Shaker1

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No doubt Ford intended to best GM...and did! Let us not forget that Ford had played their own game for quite some time though. GM went for displacement and Ford stuck tenaciously with less displacement and more efficient designs. GM went with IRS on the Camaro, and Ford refined the SRA. GM adds weight and Ford eliminates it. GM goes all tech heavy and Ford sticks with the basics. So, believing Ford was mostly following their own predetermined direction is not all that hard to believe. That does not mean they were not aware of GMs intentions and planning to beat them. Simply that GMs tail wasn't wagging the (big) dog - Ford!
 
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betiwin

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Watch, I wouldn't be surprised to see the boss 302 best the zL1 around most road courses. It will be a couple tenths behind in the 1/4 mile but I feel it may surprise a few zl1 owners.
 

Redzone

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then why did they wait a whole year after the 302 came out to do this? it's not like SVT didn't know what team mustang was doing over there. the GT500 is a faster car everywhere, straight line and road course.

really, lets look at this. the 2013, 650HP, 202MPH, 1.0+G skidpad, shelby GT500 is coming out 1 year AFTER the boss 302 has been released, and the SAME year(looks like ~4 months apart) as the camaro ZL1. and you guys really believe that these changes are in response to the boss 302, and that the released date coinciding with the ZL1 is purely a coincidence??? seriously.

That's why I said half believed.......

Of course whatever GM does plays a pivotal role in what Ford does. Always been that way & always will be.

But,I do think the Boss had something to do (be it however small) with the GT500 jumping 100 HP with a revised suspension/launch control all in one fell swoop. It was just too close,and sometimes faster,in magazine tests when compared to one another in 0-60,1/4 mile,and road course times.
 

GarageLogic

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and you guys really believe that these changes are in response to the boss 302, and that the released date coinciding with the ZL1 is purely a coincidence??? seriously.
Had the GT500 release date not been at the same time of the year every year since it was first produced, this might have been a valid point. Unfortunately for you, it has been. In fact, I'm thinking Job 1 on the 2013 GT500 is actually a liitle later than the 2007-2012's.
 

Ry_Trapp0

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Had the GT500 release date not been at the same time of the year every year since it was first produced, this might have been a valid point. Unfortunately for you, it has been. In fact, I'm thinking Job 1 on the 2013 GT500 is actually a liitle later than the 2007-2012's.
you mean even though it's coming out within 4 months of the ZL1. and 1 year after the boss 302. the fact that it's not coming out the same time of the year as every other GT500 proves that it's in answer to the boss 302 and not the ZL1, is that what your saying? is that seriously your argument???:dw:

again, so you guys are saying that it is 100% absolute pure coincidence that the GT500 is getting the biggest performance improvement we've ever seen in one model year of the mustang in the same year as the camaro ZL1 is showing up on the scene? i'm just trying to wrap my head around this illogical thought here, i might be too intelligent to accept this theory...
 
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