Black Gold 380R's 65 Mustang Build Thread

Black Gold 380R

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Hello Everyone,

Made some really good progress today. Got my cutch bled and installed my radiator and upper and lower radiator tubes. Those heat shrink band clamps are way better then the traditional clamps. I also got my PS hoses mocked up. Now I need to take them to the tubes n hoses place to have them make my high pressure hoses for my PS system. I'll do that this coming week.

Here is where I started with the clutch. I filled this with fluid and under the car near the throw-out bearing I had a huge leak where the hose attaches to the tubing I made. There was an adapter. It was leaking on the hose side. So, I flipped the adapter and it started leaking on the tube side. I had a spare adapter and replaced the bad one with it. All was well. But, Damn, I bathed in fluid while making that change LOL. It was not fun.
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Then after all the leaks were fixed I asked my wife to come out to the garage and help me bleed the system. Man, there is a solid pedal now. I tried rowing the gear without the clutch engaged and it wouldn't go into gear. I engaged the clutch and she rows gears like nobody's business. The clutch is a little harder to press than I thought it would be for being a hydraulic system, but, everything is brand new and not broken in yet. Other than that it seems to work just fine.
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Here are my PS mock up hoses. Should have the new hoses by next week. I'm going to have to take the PS pump in to because I do not know the size or thread pitch on the back of the pump. I'll let the tubes n hoses place figure that out.
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Black Gold 380R

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Okay, after the clutch was bled, and working properly, it was time to install the radiator and upper and lower radiator tubes.

I started with the lower tube on the water pump side. I had to remove the ALT so I had room to work and so I could get the heat gun in there to shrink the clamp.
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Then I moved over to the radiator side. I had to lift the radiator a little to get the tube to slide in the hose. Tubes don't like to bend LMAO.
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After everything was set I pulled the heat gun out and shrunk the clamps. Those things work great. I was pushing and yanking with all my might to make sure that tube would not pop off. She ain't going anywhere LOL.
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Then I installed the upper tube. I started on the intake side. I had to cut a little longer hose than my fabricator had on there to ensure there was enough for the clamp to grab on too.
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The radiator side was a little more difficult since everything was already in place. I had to slide the hose on to the intake side of the tube. Then line it up with the radiator tube and then slide the hose half way across to the radiator side. Needless to say the hose and tube needed a little grease to make that work. Once the hose was in place it was time to slide the shrink clamps on and get the heat gun out.
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It came out great. I will get some acetone and remove the white lettering on the clamps to give it an even cleaner look.
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Love the way this looks. And once the radiator cover is installed it will look even cleaner.
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Black Gold 380R

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After that I thought I was done for the day, but I went to check the mail and I finally received something I ordered.

I have been looking for a temporary fix on my air filter problem while I wait for Kindig to let me know what they can do for me.

Well, @kazman, I think it was him..... or @ToddW702 Told me about some motorcycle filters made by a company called Ramair. The only ones I could find that came close to fitting was in the United Kingdom and made for some Weber 45 DCOE carburetors.

So, I place my order and they came in today. They are tight, but fit. This will work until I can get my official air filter system. This will allow me to drive the car and have filtration.

It looks okay, but they are just socks that slide over. So, they can be removed easily for car shows when it's time.

My wife said she doesn't like how they look, but said they were practical. I agree on the practicality side.

What do you guys think????
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Black Gold 380R

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Okay,

The saga continues with good news and bad news LOL.

The good news is I got my radiator filled with fluid and added my radiator overflow hose. No leaks detected. I then reinstalled my ALT.

The bad news is I will not be able to take the car out for a test drive today as it is running WAY too rich. I think I found "A" problem. My wide band gauge reads an A/F ratio of 15 (very high, which seems correct). My ECU is reading the A/F ratio as 12.5 (where it should be, but that is obviously wrong as it is pouring black smoke out the rear). I thought I might have a bad 02 Sensor. So, I swapped the banks (meaning I changed the computer from the left bank 02 sensor to the gauge 02 sensor on the right bank). I started the car again and it read exactly the same. Gauge said 15 and ECU said 12.5. So, the ECU reads 2 different 02 sensors on 2 different banks as 12.5. So, I think something is set up wrong in the ECU as it should not be running that rich at a 12.5 A/F ratio. It seems the 15 A/F ratio seems more accurate to me.

I can't even get it to run long enough to make any adjustments as it fills my garage with black smoke LOL. My wife said I came in the house reeking of exhaust LMAO!

The good news is while it was running I pushed my clutch to the floor and put it in first gear. The tire did not turn with the clutch disengaged. I slowly started to release the clutch and the tire began to spin. So, my clutch, transmission, driveshaft and rear-end all work great. No noises, no grinding and no rubbing. At least that went right today LOL.

If I could just get my A/F ratio right I think it will be awesome. I will probably need to take it to a performance shop to have my fuel injectors uploaded as they are not listed in the ECU profile for initial start up. Then I will need to figure out why my ECU is reading the 02 sensor as 12.5 instead of 15 like my gauge.

Here are some pictures I took today. It's been a while since I took pictures without the fender covers in the way. Engine bay is looking awesome. Too bad it doesn't run as well as it looks LMAO!

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DSG2003Mach1

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Hope the computer issue is something easy.
The filters aren’t the best looking in the world but by no means does it look “bad” . I’d rock it for now without question
 

kazman

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Good job on the RamAir filters. They also make socks that go over the foam filters, adds a little more filtration and might not look so "coarse".
 

mariusvt

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Just to note, an afr of 15 would be lean and 12.5 is rich. Stoich is 14.7, the lower the number the richer it's running and 12.5 would be a pretty rich idle.
 

Black Gold 380R

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Hope the computer issue is something easy.
The filters aren’t the best looking in the world but by no means does it look “bad” . I’d rock it for now without question

Good job on the RamAir filters. They also make socks that go over the foam filters, adds a little more filtration and might not look so "coarse".

Thank you both for your feedback.

I'm hoping the fuel injector fix is easy and something that can be fixed through a more thorough tune or uploading the ECU with a more recent program. I tried installing other injectors listed in the initial set up program hoping something would be close. The car either wouldn't start or ran rich.

Thank you for the feedback on the Ramair filters. I agree it doesn't look the best. At first I was like Meh, but they are growing on me a little (It's like having a hot chick in granny panties LMAO). Not to a point where I'm going to run with them, but I'm not totally ashamed to have people see them LMAO! Right now I'm more concerned with function over form.

I'll keep plugging away on the build. Then I'll take it to a performance shop and see if they can make the proper adjustments. The car runs and everything else seems to be working properly. So, if I can get the A/F ratio set up properly it should run badass.

Here is a place called Prestige Motorsports. They run these Borla EFI set ups all the time with no problems.

Here's a video of them building a 427 and they show it running great in the dyno at the 1:55 mark.

Here is another one from Prestige Motorsports. It shows a truck running very well on the 8 stack set up.

Maybe I'll call Prestige this week and ask them if they can help me. I didn't buy from them so I may be S O L. LOL.
 
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Black Gold 380R

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Just to note, an afr of 15 would be lean and 12.5 is rich. Stoich is 14.7, the lower the number the richer it's running and 12.5 would be a pretty rich idle.

Awesome! Thank you mariusvt! I was under the impression it was the other way around. I'm still learning fuel injection and tuning and stuff like this. So, I'm doing research and trying to figure this out.

Guess the ECU is reading correctly then. Then the next question would be is why is it not compensating? Could be because my injectors are not listed in the ECU set up and I'm running the wrong injectors. So the pulses and spray lengths are off. Which, again, would need a tune to install my injectors into the program.

Again thank you so much. I appreciate the lesson. When I would blip the throttle the A/F ration would go to 10.5 on my ECU screen and a yellow warning box would show up. So, what you're saying makes perfect sense.

I'm actually kind of happy. Knowing my ECU is working properly is a huge weight off my shoulders.

This is why I'm glad I kept my build here and all the help you guys provide is greatly appreciated!
 

DSG2003Mach1

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Does the gauge that’s reading 15 tie into the ecu or are they separate?

If you wreak of fuel it sounds like the 12.x is probably more accurate. As mentioned why wouldn’t it try to correct and lean out
 

Black Gold 380R

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Does the gauge that’s reading 15 tie into the ecu or are they separate?

If you wreak of fuel it sounds like the 12.x is probably more accurate. As mentioned why wouldn’t it try to correct and lean out

Hello DSG. They are separate. I wanted the gauge so I could glance quickly at the dash and see it. I don't want to look down at my ECU screen, in my console, while driving.

Also, the gauge does not display in digital numbers. It's a needle style gauge that matches the other gauges in my cluster.

Yeah, I now realize 12.5 is rich LOL. I think the ECU cannot compensate because the wrong injector information is loaded into the ECU. So, the electronic pulse the ECU is sending out is probably causing the the injector to spray incorrectly. Again, not sure exactly how a fuel injection system works. I just have limited understanding at this point.

More research is needed on my part to learn exactly how an ECU fires/activates an injector.
 

01yellercobra

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How many parameters can you change on the touch screen? Can you enter specific injector information? Or is it a deal where you can select the size of the injector and then the ECU adjusts from there?

Is everything done through the touch screen or can you get software for a computer?

Generally there's still some adjusting that has to be done. While the ECU can compensate, it can only compensate so much.

Double check the other reading such as temp and throttle position. Those will have an effect on how it runs.

As for the extra wideband being off it might need to be free air calibrated.
 

mariusvt

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Injectors all have their own maps, etc. Most tuners have a preference to what they like to work with based on what the injector manufacturer publishes to make their lives easier. If your ecu doesn't have parameters for the injectors you're using, you may be limited to what you can do until you get a tune built to properly account for what you're running.

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the tuning side, so I don't want to give any advice on what you may or may not be able to tweak to try to lean it out some.
 

Black Gold 380R

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Thank you @01yellercobra and @mariusvt ! Really appreciate you guys offering some insight here.

Bob, When it comes to the touch screen, I'm using the set up wizard. It lists some injector manufactures and in those manufactures it offers some of the common injectors used. For example under OEM, they list the orange (19lb), blue (24lb) and red (30lb) Ford injectors used on the Fox body Mustangs.

However, they do not list my specific injectors. When I click on custom injector I receive a warning screen that says I have to install my injectors using the Holley software through a laptop. So, there is a program/software to use a laptop to get things fine tuned.

I do realize my handheld wizard is supposed to be for an initial start up. Problem is the computer stays in non learning mode until the car reaches operating temperature and then starts learning and making adjustments. My car will never get up to operating temperature the way it is currently running. And the handheld is for very basic adjustments.

Mariusvt:

Thank you again for helping me out. I literally just got off the phone with a local tuner. He has been a friend of the family since we were kids. He is a Holley dealer and is very familiar with the Holley systems.

He told me that for my level of performance engine the set up wizard "rarely" works. He said it is good for a stock engine, but not mine. He said my individual runners, lack of injector information in the ECU and the fact my cam is set up with a 108 lobe separation a specific tune for my car is needed.

He told me that he is tuning 3 supercharged cars right now, but should be able to fit me in next week. Which is good since I'm going to be a vacation for the next 2 weeks.

So, as of now I do have a tuner who may be able to help me out and help me get this car to at least run and idle correctly and then fine tune it from there.

Thank God. I always seem to have problems, but then possible solutions present themselves.

Thanks again guys. It's really cool to have you guys give me some pointers and educate me on this.
 

Black Gold 380R

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Hello everyone,

On vacation this week and next. So, did a little bit of work on the car. The last two major things to do are get the engine tuned (should be doing this next week) AND get the side stripes repainted in order to reassemble the sheet metal on the front end.

So, I'm working on a few very minor things right now.

Oh on a side note: I was told my wheels are done and should be here some time next week. SWEET!

So, today I worked on wiring up my horns and electric fans. I also installed some new LED lights.

I ordered a set of Hella horns from Amazon. I received 1 Hella horn and some no name brand horn. The Hella horn worked great, but the no name brand didn't work at all. I set up a return and ordered a new set of horns. So, this will be fixed next week.
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I installed some LED back up lights. My taillights/brake lights were already LED, but my back up lights and front parking lights were incandescent bulbs. Time to upgrade.

Here is the incandescent bulb.
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Reflection of incandescent bulb on the wall.
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LED installed. Holy cow, what a difference LOL. You can see the incandescent bulb on the passenger side. No comparison LOL.
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LED reflection on the wall.
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Here you can see the comparison from the passenger side.
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Here are both LEDs installed.
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LED reflection on the wall.
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Here are the front LEDs. These are a combination parking light/turn signal. This is in parking light mode. They are much brighter when the turn signal is applied. Overall I'm very happy with these LED light upgrades.
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CobraBob

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Hope the computer issue is something easy.
The filters aren’t the best looking in the world but by no means does it look “bad” . I’d rock it for now without question
My exact thought. Not great, but fine for now. Could be worse.

Man, I freaking admire your patience and move-forwardness. I could NEVER do a project like this. Nope! Never. Keep up the great work!!!
 

Black Gold 380R

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My exact thought. Not great, but fine for now. Could be worse.

Man, I freaking admire your patience and move-forwardness. I could NEVER do a project like this. Nope! Never. Keep up the great work!!!

Thank you Bob! Yeah, the filters work, but are not the answer I'm looking for LOL.

star wars These aren't the droids we're looking for. GIF


Thank you for your compliment in my forward progress. Back in the day I would see my brother modifying stuff to make it fit. Back then (Late 80's) I was like "If it doesn't fit out of the box it's not for me." LOL. My brother told me that modifying was just part of hot rodding.

Then my brother did some pretty major work on this car before I took it back. He told me that as long as you are "working" on your car progress is being made.

My brother has been in the performance game since he was a kid. As a matter of fact my tuner and my brother are the ones who grew up together.

So, after watching what my brother was doing and taking his philosophy I thought I could do it to. And every time I hit a road block I try to figure out a way to over come it. And if I can't do it by myself I work on something else until I can get help.

Watching and learning from my brother has given me the mind set to tackle a project like this Bob. Some tasks seemed daunting to me, but once I got in there and start cutting or welding metal or doing body work I got into a groove and started to get motivated about what I was doing.

Now it has become fun (with some stress LOL) and I cannot wait to get this car finished.

And when I do get bummed I just do this comparison and it motivates me again LOL.

BEFORE :((n):
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AFTER :D(y):
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CobraBob

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You indeed learned well from your brother. When your project is 100% done, you’re going to be really pleased with what you’ve accomplished. More than you are even now. Some sort of printed “booklet” is a must IMO for others to get a true sense of what you’ve done. Great for car shows, too.
 

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So, I just spent the last couple hours reading through this thread and catching up on your build and all I can say is WOW. The amount of work that has gone into this is nothing short of amazing, and it definitely shows. It was awesome meeting and hanging out with ya this past weekend Glenn, and I'm really looking forward following the rest of this build!
 

Black Gold 380R

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So, I just spent the last couple hours reading through this thread and catching up on your build and all I can say is WOW. The amount of work that has gone into this is nothing short of amazing, and it definitely shows. It was awesome meeting and hanging out with ya this past weekend Glenn, and I'm really looking forward following the rest of this build!

Hello Chris! Thank you for the great review of my build thread. Thank you for spending the time to go through it and provide some feedback. I always enjoy hearing what people think of my build.

Yes, it was also great meeting you and hanging out at the MBTB car show and grabbing some lunch. I believe I have another friend for life in Southern California now (y).

Hopefully everything goes well next year and I'll be able to take my 65 out there and you can see it in person.
 

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