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Best E85 fuel pump??

Discussion in 'The Distillery' started by SOVACobra03, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. cj428mach

    cj428mach Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I was recommended the AEM-1200's by trbo vnm. Using some of the online calculators they should get me over 800rwhp on e85 before I have an issue.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  2. JeremyH

    JeremyH Member Established Member

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    I would say two ford gt pumps with a bap 17-18 volts, 1000cc injectors and a line/rail/filter upgrade should be good for around 650-700rwhp on e85. Returnless setups start to have issues with corn at this level anyway due to the volume. Just figure 20-25% less hp on corn for what a gas setup would make.

    If you want 700hp or more on e85, just go return to and save yourself the trouble.

    Bosch 044 is a very good external pump if you go that route. I prefer in tank pumps as I can turn them on and off when needed. Which you cant do with in line external pumps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  3. JeremyH

    JeremyH Member Established Member

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    Sounds about right for two of those 750-800rwhp, I'm making 766rwhp with room to go on a return setup with one AEM-E 340 pump and a Walbro 465 pump. The walbro 465 only comes on in boost with a hobbs switch. I run a 43psi base pressure for my 1000cc injectors.
     
  4. DisposableHero

    DisposableHero Active Member Established Member

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    GT's + bap with pump gas are barely good for 600 man.. been there done that
     
  5. SVT_Troy

    SVT_Troy Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Many have done it plus some..... not sure where your getting that from. With that said you need a modified fpdm or a dual setup.
     
  6. slo984now

    slo984now AKA 01yellerCobra Established Member

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    I hit 600 with twin GT pumps, wire upgrade, and stock FPDM. I just now added a BAP because I added 5psi and a bigger blower.
     
  7. DisposableHero

    DisposableHero Active Member Established Member

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    I was return with them and they still weren't enough. It's documented out there that it works for some and not for others
     
  8. Swervedriver

    Swervedriver Member Established Member

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    *shrug* Mine made 705 without a BAP. I did have a modified MDM FPDM, FORE rails, -8 feed, wire upgrade and 60 lbs injectors.

    The main current carrying wires to my pumps both have fuses. Up until recently I would pop the hood and pull the fuses to flash the car. I say up until recently because I had an extra switch in the cabin so I wired it in series with the factory wires that now trigger the relays. I kill my pumps by flipping the switch.
     
  9. JeremyH

    JeremyH Member Established Member

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    First off there are better/cheaper return pumps than the ford gt pump. Ford gt is phenomenal for a returnless system. But a cheap standard walbro gss gerotor 255lph pump actually flows better than a ford gt pump in a return configuration. The gerotor pump in return puts out less heat and will flow more like 260-265lph from the get go. And can be had for $70 a pump. Cheap and reliable, great for your always on idle/cruise pump.

    This is not aimed directly at you, I have seen this many times. It wasn't a pump issue specificy, flow wise they are more than capable of making 600rwhp+. When systems don't make what they are supposed to guys often throw bigger pumps or baps at it rather than diagnose and correct the initial problem. Don't blame guys either, its often easier, but I have seen many times it be something as simple as dirty fuel filter, loose wiring or inadequate base pressure or poorly setup return system, it will put a lot of heat in the fuel and flow starts dropping a lot as heat goes up. Especialy in a return system.

    Most pump flow ratings are established at 125 degrees Fahrenheit, a 75-100 degree increase in fuel temps will results in a 25-30% drop in flow for your average 39mm armature pump, that's substantial. (The dual channel single stage 39mm/50mm armature pump only see a 5-10% drop in flow when hot so they are a better performing "street" pump as they will handle the heat better) I've seen poorly setup return systems with fuel temps in the 180+ degree range on the return. The problem is your standard return system completely bypasses all the oem safeguards to keep heat out of the fuel system. To compensate we just throw bigger lines or pumps at it instead of optimizing your system and setup for your needs which will get you to the power you want safely while prolonging reliability and pump life. As heat goes up flow and pump life go down.

    Some tips to prevent this.
    -Run adequate wiring to the pump(s) 10-12 gauge minimum from a dedicated power source with a reliable relay trigger. This is step one to healthy system. If the wiring is not adequate the pumps are going to draw more current and not flow at the advertised rating from the get go, and it will only get worse from there as the pumps run longer and the fuel gets warm outside temps etc.
    -Minimize the pump amount and size to safely make your max power goal, anymore and your just adding heat. Make sure you give your self some head room. I like to do 10-20% more fuel than you max power goal.
    -Deactivate pump(s) you don't need when just idling cruising, hobbs switches are your friends.
    -Factory systems use rail pressure and temperature sensors to maintain pressure and prevent fuel vaporization in the lines and rails. A return system does not have this. On a hot day when the engine bay is heat soaked the pcm will raise delta pressure to keep the fuel from boiling. So for a return system you need to set your base pressure high enough to prevent this. I will tell you on a 100 degree day a 39-40psi base pressure is inadequate to do this. This is a double edge sword though remember as you raise base pressure max pump flow will go down so plan accordingly and you don't want pressure too high. For most a 43-50psi base pressure is adequate depending on climate and use of the car.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  10. DisposableHero

    DisposableHero Active Member Established Member

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    Sure that sounds all good but there are many people that have had them not be as good as they are made out to be.

    I am just trying to save someone from taking the chance that they aren't enough. So do it right the first time.
     
  11. JeremyH

    JeremyH Member Established Member

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    As mentioned there are better cheaper pumps for a return setup than a ford gt supercar pump in the first place so I don't recommend running then in a return setup at all. (not that they wont work)

    That's what my post is for, do it right the first time and set your system up properly. I have had a dozen different fuel systems on my cars over years, tested every pump out there I can get my hands on and built hundreds of fuel systems for all kinds of builds and I have not had a single bad ford gt pump or one that just didn't perform as advertised. When I repair/inspect fuel systems or fuel hats due to suspected bad pumps or not performing as expected it has always been something else. Like mentioned its the setup or something simple overlooked. Two most common ones that gets guys all the time is improper wiring or a loose or over torqued and broken hose clamp in the hat. Car will run fine idle and part throttle, but under load in boost they run out of pump early as it leaks fuel back into the tank past the faulty clamp at the pump connection, not to mention this will cause the pump to work harder throughout the operating range and just add heat as well.
     
  12. Swervedriver

    Swervedriver Member Established Member

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    If converting to a return/FPR system I wouldn't (and didn't) even consider FGT pumps.
     
  13. SOVACobra03

    SOVACobra03 I have an addiction...... Established Member

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    Goodness.... so what do yall think of 3 465s with 2 on a Hobbs switch
     
  14. JeremyH

    JeremyH Member Established Member

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    Sounds like a lot of pump for 1000rwhp+ setup, two on the hobbs switch would be the way to do it though for a street car.
     
  15. 99cobra09

    99cobra09 "Stock Car" Established Member

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    What kind of Hobbs switch do you use, Ive seen different styles. I'm wanting to do this to turn off 2 of the 3 walbro 255 pumps I'm running in the fore tripple hat.
     
  16. JeremyH

    JeremyH Member Established Member

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    I'm running the Honeywell military grade hobbs switch from Fore. I also use the Fore FC3 controller which has a second trigger input to turns on pumps 2 and 3.

    http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/h-76051.htm

    http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/36-101.htm


    I used a 1/8npt tap and installed the hobbs switch in my intake manifold.

    20140610_183350_zpsgzckkiy6.jpg
    20140610_183342_zpshy6lg8aa.jpg
     
  17. SVT Zorro

    SVT Zorro Member Established Member

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    I know this post is old ..by personal experience I have run Walbro 255 on my E85 cobra on 600 RWHP and pumps were good for a period of time until pressure started to drop from 60 to 50 or so making the car starving for gas at high RPM I went on a 2 set of 255 Walbros now I think they are a great pumps but the E85 just shorten their life , later I switch to a Lethal stryker (E85 compatible) and they just survived for 3-4 days , later switched to a 340 Aeromotive (E85 compatible) and one started to fail.....now I'm ordering a pair of Walbros 465 E 85 compatible ...I have a Lethal performance return system and a fore hat.
     
  18. Mpoitrast87

    Mpoitrast87 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I had twin 405's in my car. Bought my car with them and I believe the where in the car for 2ish years before they failed while I was driving. Now I have twin 465's and no issues so far. its been 6 months.
     

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