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ATS Brembos on SN95 spindles - no spindle mod

Discussion in 'SN-95 and New Edge Mustangs' started by Mustang5L5, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. 94 Cobra R

    94 Cobra R Same Ol Same Ol Premium Member Established Member

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    Is there enough of a difference to make that swap? Brake bias?
     
  2. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    MM seems to prefer bias in the 70-75% range up front.

    According to their chart, a 99-04 cobra is around 73/27
    F7D211C4-28A8-43CC-96DC-9AFE4C49AAA5.jpeg

    When I run the numbers for the ATS brembo and stock rears, I get around 80/20.

    With the 43mm rears I get 75/25.

    The issue is MC selection. I’ve run some numbers and think a 94-95 GT 1 1/16” Mc will work for the 94-95 guys with vacuum boosters, but don’t know what the 96+ hydroboost guys can use yet.

    Also, not 100% sure on bias calcs. If someone can run them on their own that would be great. Also, if anyone had a rear sn95 pad handy...what is the width of the pad? Need it for the bias Calc
     
    94 Cobra R likes this.
  3. SilverGT1

    SilverGT1 Member Established Member

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    I just got the Power Stop S4824A rear single piston 38mm Cobra Style Varga Caliper for my 2003 GT as part of my upgrade to the Cobra 11.65" rotors. I still have these calipers sitting in the box... I assume that the 43mm Taurus caliper that you are proposing will work with the carrier bracket on the new edge style rear as well?
     
  4. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    Yes it will

    But as you may know, the GT pad bracket won’t fit over the thicker 11.65” rotor.

    But the cobra bracket will work with either.

    The only “watchout” is that the body of the Caliper is a few mm bigger for the larger piston. It cleared fine on my 11.65” live axle setup. I haven’t done and IRS or 10.5” setup

    Btw...the red Caliper in my photos is the power stop s4824a kit. Very happy with them
     
  5. SilverGT1

    SilverGT1 Member Established Member

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    very cool. So, from way back in this thread when we were just looking at the ATS with the cobra rear, the consensus was that it would be a little more forward bias heavy. Does 43mm bring this back into Ford's desired bias range?
     
  6. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    I’m calculsting it around 75/25, which is more ideal that without the 43mm.

    Do you have a set of rear sn95 pads handy on a bench? Can you get me the width of the pad friction material?
     
  7. SilverGT1

    SilverGT1 Member Established Member

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  8. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    Can you get me the width of the part that touches the rotor. The link gives entire pad width of the backing plate, but I need the contact radius of the pad for the brake bias Calc.
     
  9. SilverGT1

    SilverGT1 Member Established Member

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    Here you go:
    IMG_6783.JPG

    IMG_6784.JPG

    IMG_6785.JPG
     
  10. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    Perfect. Thanks
     
  11. SilverGT1

    SilverGT1 Member Established Member

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    While we are at it, does anyone know the size of the cobra rear brake pad?
     
  12. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    Same as yours. It’s just thinner to account for the vented cobra rotor
     
  13. Blkkbgt

    Blkkbgt Active Member Established Member

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    @Mustang5L5

    I had NO idea there was a larger rear caliper option for us on these cars without going full aftermarket. That's some great sleuthing on your part. I like how the bias is changed to something more acceptable. This takes care of one of the major issues I had with this mod. From what you stated I guess I wasn't to far off on my findings using that generic bias calculator? I'll have to go back and look but I thought I had something like 82/18?

    After looking at everything I still do not like the idea of the thin wall of the inserts as I previously stated. I understand that it is required to drop the caliper enough to clear 17s but I run 18's and would rather have more material in that area and just trim the pads. This would also keep me from having to elongate the hole in the caliper on the backside to mount them which I am also not a fan of.

    Lastly thanks for keeping this whole thing alive and addressing the bias issue.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  14. Blkkbgt

    Blkkbgt Active Member Established Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  15. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    @Blkkbgt I agree with you about the thinner sidewall of the insert when you drop it down 3mm, but the load path under hard braking doesn't put force in that area of the insert. Been meaning to do an FEA to confirm that with data, but I think 96ranger did do one so I never completed it.

    My calipers are still in a box. I was hesitant to install them without any rear upgrade, but now that I found the 43mm caliper solution, and estimate out a 75/25 bais, I am more confident to do it. I also believe a 1 1/16" bore MC will be the ideal MC for us vacuum boosted brake guys.

    But, my engine is out of the car for upgrades, so unfortunately this project will need to wait for me. Will give me time to clean and paint up the ATS brembos in a more appealing livery vs the OEM finish
     
  16. Blkkbgt

    Blkkbgt Active Member Established Member

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    I have yet to see and single FEA on any inserts being produced. I have been assured about the load path and told everything is fine but it still doesn't sit well with me. How does the thin area of your set compare to the thickness of the originals?
     
  17. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    Originals measure ~0.116” wall thickness

    1mm offset without any drop is ~0.137”

    1mm offset and 3mm drop is ~0.060”


    That’s measured from outer wall to major diameter of threading
    85F27D81-4352-4E8C-88BE-96E72D630B2F.jpeg
     
  18. lowranger96

    lowranger96 Active Member Established Member

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    You have to keep in mind that the insert is pressed into a bore and that bore is not going to let the insert give away even if it wanted to when talking about the braking forces.
     
    Blown38 likes this.
  19. Suki

    Suki New Member Established Member

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    thats fine pm me what its going to cost to have these shipped to canada 46t-4e1
     
  20. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Active Member Established Member

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    Any ideas on what the original inserts are made of in terms of material?
     

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