are west point cadets considered higher ranking than enlisted?

[03cobrah]

a friend and i were watching a video of a sgt in the marine corps chewing out a west point cadet, they were basically getting inspected on some drill field.

here's the video if you guys were interested: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAadvbQAmTQ&feature=related"]YouTube - Marine professionalism at its best[/nomedia]

my friend and i started getting into an argument about whether the enlisted Marine outranks the cadet. my point was that the cadet did not receive a commission from the president, but the marine did, which is a non commission stated in his promotion award. therefore he should outrank the cadet.

but my friend also brought up the manual AR 600-20, chapter 1, paragraph 6 which basically states, west point cadets out rank rotc cadets, and rotc cadets out rank ocs candidates. but this is the army manual i dunno how it can apply to a enlisted marine in another service. correct me if i'm wrong, which is why i brought up this topic, pretty interesting too.

 

[OhIIICobra]

Cadets fall in a gray area in each service since they hold no authority until they receive their actual commission. By including them in AR 600-20, the Army is clearly defining the level of respect they should receive.

The other services imply that cadets and officer candidates should receive the same level of respect as a brand new second lieutenant (since they will be commissioned some day). However, they are not subject to the UCMJ and have no authority over anyone. Until they actually receive a commission a cadet should not be telling anyone in any branch of the military anything official.

As far as the video, those Marines were assigned in some form of instructor capacity, so they had every right to correct (yell LOL) at them on the drill pad.

I've had to take groups of second Lieutenants and visiting cadets on tours of the flightline before and let them tag along to see how SNCOs do business. Every cadet respected the enlisted people they came in contact with calling them sir or ma'am even the lowest ranking Airmen.

The bottom line is a cadet can't do anything to an enlisted person even if they wanted to. However if an enlisted guy was enough of a jackass to a cadet for whatever reason, his Commander and First Sergeant could take action against him.

That is my retired First Sergeant answer. LOL

 

[Marc]

I would like to see a Cadet try and bitch me out. Hell, I wouldn't take that crap from a full bird Colonel. Respect goes both ways.

 

[03DOHC]

.....Hell, I wouldn't take that crap from a full bird Colonel. Respect goes both ways.

With as much time and as many stripes as you have you could get away with that. An E4 would be an E3 in two blinks of an eye, or less, if he tried to pull anything like that.

 

[carrrnuttt]

I would like to see a Cadet try and bitch me out. Hell, I wouldn't take that crap from a full bird Colonel. Respect goes both ways.

You're also a Chief Master Sargeant. I heard CMSGTs don't take crap from god himself. :thumbsup:

[Off-topic] Speaking of which, I remember reading a poem a long time ago, that covered how close to divinity USAF personnel are going rank by rank. I think 4 star generals were able to speak directly to god...

...however, Chiefs ARE god. :-D

Happen to know what poem I am talking about? I have been looking for it for a long time.

[On topic] On a serious note, I'd probably take the command of a First Sgt. and/or a MSGT to CMSGT over a colonel's.

 

[FX4 SAPPER]

Cadets have no authority over anyone, basically they are like Privates in basic training. Untill they receive their commission they arent anything to anyone.

 

[fire_4_effect]

west point is overrated... i know clowns that went there, LOL!

 

[ssj4sadie]

My old Lt walked into our office one day, we all stood up. Well her ROTC cadet friend walked in with her. He says "at ease guys you don't have to stand for me"......

I pointed and laughed.

 

[fire_4_effect]

being an officer is also overrated... LOL!

 

[97desertCobra]

Cadets have no authority over anyone, basically they are like Privates in basic training. Untill they receive their commission they arent anything to anyone.

+1. And for the most part they know where their place in the world is. To stay the **** out of our way and just absorb everthing they can like a sponge.

 

[97desertCobra]

With as much time and as many stripes as you have you could get away with that. An E4 would be an E3 in two blinks of an eye, or less, if he tried to pull anything like that.

Obviously an E-4 would be out of his/her mind if they thought that would be a good idea.

 

[blackfang]

a friend and i were watching a video of a sgt in the marine corps chewing out a west point cadet, they were basically getting inspected on some drill field.

here's the video if you guys were interested: YouTube - Marine professionalism at its best

my friend and i started getting into an argument about whether the enlisted Marine outranks the cadet. my point was that the cadet did not receive a commission from the president, but the marine did, which is a non commission stated in his promotion award. therefore he should outrank the cadet.

but my friend also brought up the manual AR 600-20, chapter 1, paragraph 6 which basically states, west point cadets out rank rotc cadets, and rotc cadets out rank ocs candidates. but this is the army manual i dunno how it can apply to a enlisted marine in another service. correct me if i'm wrong, which is why i brought up this topic, pretty interesting too.

There is a difference between what you saw in the video verse a normal Enlisted person treating a cadet or OCS Candidate. Those Marine Drill Instructors were fulfilling a capacity that allows them to make corrections like that. The Cadet was not listening to what he was told to do, but he did handle it very well.

Marine Corps OCS candidates are treated very similar.

 

[OhIIICobra]

You're also a Chief Master Sargeant. I heard CMSGTs don't take crap from god himself. :thumbsup:

[Off-topic] Speaking of which, I remember reading a poem a long time ago, that covered how close to divinity USAF personnel are going rank by rank. I think 4 star generals were able to speak directly to god...

...however, Chiefs ARE god. :-D

Happen to know what poem I am talking about? I have been looking for it for a long time.

[On topic] On a serious note, I'd probably take the command of a First Sgt. and/or a MSGT to CMSGT over a colonel's.

This:

THE GENERAL
Leaps tall buildings with a single bound.
Is more powerful than a locomotive.
Is faster than a speeding bullet.
Walks on water.
Gives policy to GOD.

THE COLONEL
Leaps short buildings with a single bound.
Is more powerful than a switch engine.
Is just as fast as a speeding bullet.
Walks on water if the sea is calm.
Talks with GOD.

THE LIEUTENANT COLONEL
Leaps short buildings with a running start and favorable winds.
Is almost as powerful as a switch engine.
Is faster than a speeding BB.
Walks on water in indoor swimming pool.
Talks with GOD if special request is approved.

THE MAJOR
Barely clears Quonset hut.
Looses tug of war with switch engine.
Can fire a speeding bullet.
Swims well.
Is occasionally addressed by GOD.

THE CAPTAIN
Makes high marks when trying to leap building.
Gets run over by locomotive.
Can sometimes handle a gun without inflicting self injury.
Dog paddles.
Talks to animals.

THE FIRST LIEUTENANT
Runs into buildings.
Recognizes locomotives two out of three times.
Is not issued ammunition.
Can stay afloat if properly instructed in the use of Mae West.
Talks to walls.

THE SECOND LIEUTENANT
Falls over doorstep when trying to enter building.
Bays “Look at the Choo-Choo.”
Wets himself with a water pistol.
Plays in mud puddles.
Mumbles to himself.

THE NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICER
Lifts buildings and walks under them.
Kicks locomotives off the tracks.
Catches speeding bullets in his teeth and eats them.
Freezes water with a single glance.
HE IS GOD.


LOL at the 2d LT...describes a few I've known perfectly.

 

[Marc]

With as much time and as many stripes as you have you could get away with that. An E4 would be an E3 in two blinks of an eye, or less, if he tried to pull anything like that.

Of course. I have done my time. I can remember back in the 1980s that if one person had one more stripe than me, I acted like God himself was telling me something to do. Those times are gone.

Of course as a Chief, I don't take crap. But, I don't let the power go to my head either...those are the worse kinds of E9s.

 

[carrrnuttt]

This:

THE GENERAL
Leaps tall buildings with a single bound.
Is more powerful than a locomotive.
Is faster than a speeding bullet.
Walks on water.
Gives policy to GOD.

THE COLONEL
Leaps short buildings with a single bound.
Is more powerful than a switch engine.
Is just as fast as a speeding bullet.
Walks on water if the sea is calm.
Talks with GOD.

THE LIEUTENANT COLONEL
Leaps short buildings with a running start and favorable winds.
Is almost as powerful as a switch engine.
Is faster than a speeding BB.
Walks on water in indoor swimming pool.
Talks with GOD if special request is approved.

THE MAJOR
Barely clears Quonset hut.
Looses tug of war with switch engine.
Can fire a speeding bullet.
Swims well.
Is occasionally addressed by GOD.

THE CAPTAIN
Makes high marks when trying to leap building.
Gets run over by locomotive.
Can sometimes handle a gun without inflicting self injury.
Dog paddles.
Talks to animals.

THE FIRST LIEUTENANT
Runs into buildings.
Recognizes locomotives two out of three times.
Is not issued ammunition.
Can stay afloat if properly instructed in the use of Mae West.
Talks to walls.

THE SECOND LIEUTENANT
Falls over doorstep when trying to enter building.
Bays “Look at the Choo-Choo.”
Wets himself with a water pistol.
Plays in mud puddles.
Mumbles to himself.

THE NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICER
Lifts buildings and walks under them.
Kicks locomotives off the tracks.
Catches speeding bullets in his teeth and eats them.
Freezes water with a single glance.
HE IS GOD.

:thumbsup:

THAT'S IT! I've been looking for that for a while now. Had no idea what search terms to use online, so I couldn't find it. The version I remember, however, was specific to the USAF, and had a CMSGT as "God."

 

[03DOHC]

....But, I don't let the power go to my head either...those are the worse kinds of E9s.

I hope so because I have met WAY TOO many of those in my 6 years in. More people with stripes need to fight the corruption and power abuse in the military instead of just staying silent, doing their 30 years and taking the retirement.

 

[03DOHC]

Obviously an E-4 would be out of his/her mind if they thought that would be a good idea.

Exactly. But I was pointing out that what he was saying is UNCOMMON and not possible to the regular enlisted person in the military. The way I read it if I was a young person ready to join the military I could tell someone to **** off if they were violating the UCMJ and that just isn't the case. Anyone with stripes can lie and get away with anything they want to get away with (happens more often than people want to admit) and there isn't anything you can do about it if you don't have as many stripes. That is an unarguable FACT in the US Military.

 

[Sapperstang]

NCO's train them in some places. I have a friend who got assigned as a ROTC instructor. He is an E7. Now I know ROTC isn't the same, but I am not sure how West Point does it. When we got cadets that tagged along with our unit they had no authority over anyone.

 

[FX4 SAPPER]

NCO's train them in some places. I have a friend who got assigned as a ROTC instructor. He is an E7. Now I know ROTC isn't the same, but I am not sure how West Point does it. When we got cadets that tagged along with our unit they had no authority over anyone.

We got tasked out to do Warrior Forge for a month, basically we were Cadre for the ROTC noobs while they did their training up on Ft. Lewis. It was a good time, got to interact with a good portion of the Cadets, i was working the NBC range and doing the ASIPS station as well. They are as clueless and frightened as day one privates lol. West Pointers do everything in house from what ive heard, but in my experience, the best commissioned leaders have ALWAYS been Green to Gold guys.

 

[OhIIICobra]

:thumbsup:

THAT'S IT! I've been looking for that for a while now. Had no idea what search terms to use online, so I couldn't find it. The version I remember, however, was specific to the USAF, and had a CMSGT as "God."

Yeah, I like this version better. Reminds me of the way it used to be with NCOs...unfortunately not so much anymore. :beer: