Did you atleast look at any logs before u ran your car to check for yourself if u were getting bad trims, lambda ect? I def wouldnt be out racing my car at the track without verifying all of that by my tuner or at the least myself on a base tune. You should test the e85 you have in the tank too.
ALL MOTOR BOLT-ON & TUNED Motor failure
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Base tune should be fine, according to Shaun in the blown super charged car thread, e85 can be run at 14 to 1 a/f in super charged cars and live.......
Also that stuck injectors are rarely the case of this kind of failure.....
Of course that's when some one else is doing the tuning...
It always comes full circle
Also that stuck injectors are rarely the case of this kind of failure.....
Of course that's when some one else is doing the tuning...
It always comes full circle
The title is VERY missleading.
AED tuned car... no, "car that was in the process of being tuned and never finished" sounds more like it to me.
Sucks that the unfortunate happened man, hope you get the car back together quickly and properly tuned.
did the car ahow ANY hesitation or signs of not running well?
such strange damage... and cylinder 1.
I am very curious to find out what was the actual cause of the failure.
Best of luck OP.
AED tuned car... no, "car that was in the process of being tuned and never finished" sounds more like it to me.
Sucks that the unfortunate happened man, hope you get the car back together quickly and properly tuned.
did the car ahow ANY hesitation or signs of not running well?
such strange damage... and cylinder 1.
I am very curious to find out what was the actual cause of the failure.
Best of luck OP.
Are you trying to shit on Shaun? Do You even tune? Last time I checked You sling Parts.
Maybe it had a bad vacuum leak? Some quick datalogs could have potentially saved your motor..
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Wow, hell of a thread title.
Feels like I'm guilty until proven innocent. Maybe a little more investigation into the cause of the failure before posting?
I'm assuming you were running the E85 tune and not the Gasoline tune by mistake, I have seen this before as there are X3 Firmware versions that the #10 tune slot does not work correctly and loads the tune from the #1 slot. This happened to Blazer707 a few months back. I've also seen SCT Device updater errors where customers name the wrong tune the wrong name and load it incorrectly.
Of course I would have caught this with data logs....
Assuming the proper tune was run, it would take north of 15:1 Air fuel at WOT on E85 to do any sort of damage in an all-motor application. Given 7 good spark plugs and 1 bad, I would have had to command leaner fueling on the #1 cylinder compared to the other 7. Although we do have access to fuel each cylinder differently, that is not something I do, and it would require removing something on the order of 30+% fuel from that 1 cylinder. Same goes for ignition timing but I do not add timing to the #1, and based on the 1 pic I was sent (posted in this thread) it looks to be excessively lean fueling that caused this, not spark.
With E85 you need to remember it absorbs water. Water causes rust. We lost 2 ID2000 injectors from E85 after a customer let the car sit for 6 weeks with E85 in the tank/rails. Injectors like the ID1300's that have stainless internals and specifically designed for E85 would not suffer from rust, but other injectors that are 'compatible' with E85, may rust when water is present in the fuel. I do not know if the LU47 injectors have stainless internals or not. This is why it's always a good idea to store the vehicle with gasoline in the tank/lines rather than E85. Having the injectors flowed (you can have T1 Race Development do it) will show if this is the case here.
IMO what we are looking at is a fuel related failure. Either the injector, the injector harness/wiring, or an injector driver in the ECU. I've seen all 3 cause this kind of failure. Recently we had a Fast System injector harness failure that took out a cylinder in a customers 8 second race car. Intermittent connections at the injector are NO GOOD.
Key here is the other 7 cylinders are fine (based on the spark plugs). That means you can rule out the tune and start focusing on hardware.
If other cylinders look lean as well that would clue me in that the E85 Base tune was likely not being run, which would have been caught via data logs. (Stoich is set to 10.0 in the Base E85 tune I sent, compared to 14.08 for the gasoline tune, running the Gasoline tune would result in 40% lean when run with E85, and the O2 sensors will correct enough to get the car to start up and drive.)
Feels like I'm guilty until proven innocent. Maybe a little more investigation into the cause of the failure before posting?
I'm assuming you were running the E85 tune and not the Gasoline tune by mistake, I have seen this before as there are X3 Firmware versions that the #10 tune slot does not work correctly and loads the tune from the #1 slot. This happened to Blazer707 a few months back. I've also seen SCT Device updater errors where customers name the wrong tune the wrong name and load it incorrectly.
Of course I would have caught this with data logs....
Assuming the proper tune was run, it would take north of 15:1 Air fuel at WOT on E85 to do any sort of damage in an all-motor application. Given 7 good spark plugs and 1 bad, I would have had to command leaner fueling on the #1 cylinder compared to the other 7. Although we do have access to fuel each cylinder differently, that is not something I do, and it would require removing something on the order of 30+% fuel from that 1 cylinder. Same goes for ignition timing but I do not add timing to the #1, and based on the 1 pic I was sent (posted in this thread) it looks to be excessively lean fueling that caused this, not spark.
With E85 you need to remember it absorbs water. Water causes rust. We lost 2 ID2000 injectors from E85 after a customer let the car sit for 6 weeks with E85 in the tank/rails. Injectors like the ID1300's that have stainless internals and specifically designed for E85 would not suffer from rust, but other injectors that are 'compatible' with E85, may rust when water is present in the fuel. I do not know if the LU47 injectors have stainless internals or not. This is why it's always a good idea to store the vehicle with gasoline in the tank/lines rather than E85. Having the injectors flowed (you can have T1 Race Development do it) will show if this is the case here.
IMO what we are looking at is a fuel related failure. Either the injector, the injector harness/wiring, or an injector driver in the ECU. I've seen all 3 cause this kind of failure. Recently we had a Fast System injector harness failure that took out a cylinder in a customers 8 second race car. Intermittent connections at the injector are NO GOOD.
Key here is the other 7 cylinders are fine (based on the spark plugs). That means you can rule out the tune and start focusing on hardware.
If other cylinders look lean as well that would clue me in that the E85 Base tune was likely not being run, which would have been caught via data logs. (Stoich is set to 10.0 in the Base E85 tune I sent, compared to 14.08 for the gasoline tune, running the Gasoline tune would result in 40% lean when run with E85, and the O2 sensors will correct enough to get the car to start up and drive.)
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Im sure you have lots of first hand experience with stuck injectors......
Lets check a few things...
Did anyone bring up paxton blowers....no?
Did anyone bring up Lund tunes....no?
Did anyone ask for a deal on paxtons or racestars....no?
Last time I checked You dont tune, and you only sling parts. So until you can provide anything else.....
i can only image the parade if bama was in the thread title.
its all fun and games until a motor lets go on your tune.
sucks for OP, but this has happened to all the major tuners. every now and then you get bit.
its all fun and games until a motor lets go on your tune.
sucks for OP, but this has happened to all the major tuners. every now and then you get bit.
LOL so hostile towards beef!! The man was just tryin' to add some input.
2 months on base tune because you don't know how to datalog but race anyway?
The tune has been working, however something mechanical or electrically failed and I don't consider that a tune related issue, IMO.
Only posted to subscribe.
Edit: I know what it's like to lose a motor and its no fun. Bring it back and better. No need to post about it and inadvertently drag people through the mud.
The tune has been working, however something mechanical or electrically failed and I don't consider that a tune related issue, IMO.
Only posted to subscribe.
Edit: I know what it's like to lose a motor and its no fun. Bring it back and better. No need to post about it and inadvertently drag people through the mud.
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I think a thread title change is needed. Its pretty obvious OP just wanted to stir the shit with this thread title. To me it doesn't sound like a tune issue with only one cylinder hurt. Subbing for pics of torn down motor to really see what happened. My guess is a fuel delivery problem to that specific cylinder. It'll be interesting to see if its just number one.
Pay to play. I feel for the OP but when you start going off the reservation, and playing with E85 for all out drag racing is off the reservation, you need to pay attention to what is going on with the car all the time. Should have gotten logs on the base tune back to AED, MAYBE Shaun might have see bad fuel trims indicating vacuum leak or bad injector. He certainly did for me on a pre tune datalog, which turned out to be a crack in the intake plenum.
Fuel quality is also critical, alcohol absorbs water and 85% potentially absorbs a lot of water which as many here have said can cause clogged or sticking injectors or poor fuel pump performance. I would guess that #1 injector was trickling fuel and went bad lean at exactly the wrong time, at 7000 rpm under full load. There isn't a "tune" that can protect you from this. Please continue investigating and post findings here, your title has made it seem that AED doesn't care what they send out to customers or that they are incompetent, neither of which is even close to the truth. Verify you had the E85 tune in the ECU, get a fuel sample from the tank for analysis, pull the heads and get photos of all cylinders, plugs and injectors, have each injector flow tested, and have the fuel pump checked for volume and pressure. If all of those things check out as within spec and there is evidence of detonation in any other cylinder(s) then MAYBE a timing event or bad fuel command in the tune caused the failure. Very highly unlikely, as Shaun has indicated how rich he keeps base E85 tunes.
It does really suck to break a motor, sorry again.
Steve
Fuel quality is also critical, alcohol absorbs water and 85% potentially absorbs a lot of water which as many here have said can cause clogged or sticking injectors or poor fuel pump performance. I would guess that #1 injector was trickling fuel and went bad lean at exactly the wrong time, at 7000 rpm under full load. There isn't a "tune" that can protect you from this. Please continue investigating and post findings here, your title has made it seem that AED doesn't care what they send out to customers or that they are incompetent, neither of which is even close to the truth. Verify you had the E85 tune in the ECU, get a fuel sample from the tank for analysis, pull the heads and get photos of all cylinders, plugs and injectors, have each injector flow tested, and have the fuel pump checked for volume and pressure. If all of those things check out as within spec and there is evidence of detonation in any other cylinder(s) then MAYBE a timing event or bad fuel command in the tune caused the failure. Very highly unlikely, as Shaun has indicated how rich he keeps base E85 tunes.
It does really suck to break a motor, sorry again.
Steve
^^^^ This....
I tried to read all the posts but had some questions.
1) What kind of injectors was the OP using?
2) What kind of fuel pump/system?
3) Any other component upgrades to support E85?
Also, regarding the definition of "lean" from earlier posts it simply means the A/F ratio is lopsided with more air, even if there is no fuel - that is REAL lean (i.e. impending failure).
Aside from water collection and corrosion issues with E85 if you don't flush it before storing the car for along period, algae and other organic sludge can develop. And that stuff WILL CLOG your system.
Running E85 is like being doctor to a patient on life support. You have to monitor the patient constantly.
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CPRsm
Active Member
It can and has. I've seen it on more than one fuel and engine type. That's kind of a benefit of using good full. The detonation window is much smaller.
They are rare. But it needs to be eliminated or the problem moves to the new engine like Smm said.
You couldn't diagnose your way out of a box. You're here to help how?
If you recall Shaun the same thing happened to me when trying to load one of the Nitrous revisions you sent me and I called you and asked you if you were sure you hadn't sent me a N/A tune by mistake because the ABS and Advancetrac systems were not disabled...thats when you surmised that I was loading into slot 10 and the X3 was defaulting to slot 1.
Title was all explain IN FULL ENGLISH and detail to what and why. No need to reflect on your insight or opinion to my choice words. The title does NOT lie or mislead.
Shaun, same goes for you bud. You already know from our conversations via email I have kept the same demeanor and info I am now explaining now. Not to mention the very BOLD and outright detailed clarification of there is NO direction of any blame nor here or there in any way. The title is "Purpose Built" Let's focus and keep to the "Meat & Potatoes" at hand. Thanks for your shared info and we will continue to talk to where my motor failed as I have been. Thanks
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