? about mod specific tuning with supercharger

[paramax55]

I am not new to tuning, but I am new to the Ford Mod motor. I am tuning a car for a friend of a friend. He has a '99 Mustang with a SOHC mod motor. He bought it from someone who built it very nicely, but could never get it to run right. It has a balanced/blueprinted motor, aluminum intake with 8 additional injector ports and injectors, centri supercharger with 10psi pulley, T56, connected subframes, etc., etc., etc...

There were a number of "bandaids" that I removed (Diablo chip, Split-second injector controller, faulty Holley injector driver) and we are now down to the stock ECM with the original tune and stock injectors.

I have a few questions...

1) I am familiar with TunerPro and I happen to like it. I was going to use that with a Moates QuarterHorse. Does this sound like a valid option?

2) The engine runs pretty well until the boost gauge goes from vacuum to 0 psi. The AFRs go from 12(or so):1, under vacuum, to 30:1 as soon as you hit 1 psi. It's as if there is some failsafe that Ford programmed in to cut the injectors in case of a backfire. It doesn't matter what the RPM is or the load. It is purely dependent on manifold pressure. What causes this?

3) The mechanic that does the physical work on the car said "let's try unplugging the AFM." I told him he was welcome to, but that the car wouldn't run because the ECM would have no way of calculating airflow through the engine. He unplugged it and the car ran!?! WTF???!!!??? It probably ran better than it did with it plugged in? How can this be? I looked all over that car for a MAP sensor and couldn't find one. Is there one hidden somewhere?

Thank you for a point in the right direction...

 

[01yellercobra]

1) As long as you're comfortable with that program, go for it.

2) First, you need to get rid of the stock injectors. They won't flow enough fuel. Second, it sounds like the MAF transfer isn't set up correctly. That has to be done before anything else.

3) There's a limp mode on these cars in case the MAF goes bad. You unplug it and the car will run to get you home.

 

[paramax55]

2) I had someone sit in the car with a scanner while this was going on. The engine load was only reported to be 70%. That, and the fact that it didn't matter what the engine RPM was, leads me to believe that it's not the MAF maxing out. It's as if it is completely independent of flow. It seems to be completely related to manifold pressure. There is no type of MAP sensor with this stock computer?

3)What type of system is the limp mode? If there is no MAP sensor anywhere, it would have to be alpha-N, right? If so, it's a darned impressive alpha-N!

As far as the injectors go - yeah, that's a given. I just want to fix the big problems (ecm cutting fuel) before I go on to tuning for big injectors. Huge injectors won't matter if the computer quits driving them.

Before I have this guy spend over $200.00 on a Quarter Horse, does anyone know which definition file I need and where I can get a bin to start from? Will the Quarter Horse read the bin out of the ecu? And which ecu did Ford stick in the '99? Someone was nice enough to take the numbers off of the case.

I know... fun. Thanks.

 

[paramax55]

It looks like the CRAJ0 is the closest one, but that is listed as being for a 1998 4V and this is a 1999 2V. Is that close enough?

 

[01yellercobra]

2) I had someone sit in the car with a scanner while this was going on. The engine load was only reported to be 70%. That, and the fact that it didn't matter what the engine RPM was, leads me to believe that it's not the MAF maxing out. It's as if it is completely independent of flow. It seems to be completely related to manifold pressure. There is no type of MAP sensor with this stock computer?

3)What type of system is the limp mode? If there is no MAP sensor anywhere, it would have to be alpha-N, right? If so, it's a darned impressive alpha-N!

As far as the injectors go - yeah, that's a given. I just want to fix the big problems (ecm cutting fuel) before I go on to tuning for big injectors. Huge injectors won't matter if the computer quits driving them.

Before I have this guy spend over $200.00 on a Quarter Horse, does anyone know which definition file I need and where I can get a bin to start from? Will the Quarter Horse read the bin out of the ecu? And which ecu did Ford stick in the '99? Someone was nice enough to take the numbers off of the case.

I know... fun. Thanks.

1) The transfer function has nothing to do with the load. It just measures the airflow. I'm going to guess the current MAF isn't stock. I can pretty much garauntee (sp?) that's the problem you're facing. I had something similar that when I would get into boost the car would stutter and bog. Turned out the transfer wasn't dialed in and the A/F was going crazy.

I have no idea about the limp mode. I do know that I've used it a couple times after blowing the tube off my intake. It's hard to tell the MAF is disconnected. You should really get the injectors you're going to use. Otherwise you're going to have to start over with the MAF transfer for the new injectors.

It looks like the CRAJ0 is the closest one, but that is listed as being for a 1998 4V and this is a 1999 2V. Is that close enough?

On the safe side I'm going to say no. The 4V and 2V use different processors.

 

[burt ragio]

What does (sp?) stand for ? Is that intake manifold sensor pressure ?

 

[01yellercobra]

What does (sp?) stand for ? Is that intake manifold sensor pressure ?

It means I wasn't sure if I spelled that word correctly.

 

[paramax55]

We are pretty close to sea level, so 0 psi would be about the maximum that Ford should have programmed numbers for. Still, with that logic, a big cam and some ported heads should draw enough air that the thing should bog just like you said.

When the Diablo chip was in there, the AFRs were all over the place. It really didn't make any sense. I don't know if someone tried to "tune" that chip or if the chip really wasn't meant for this setup in the first place. But the car did start to behave on the stock ECU.

As far as the injectors go, I've been through this before. If I put the injectors in without being able to change the map, the car will simply flood and die as soon as you try to start it. I need to make sure I can alter the map where it is bogging, then take out about 1/2 of the fuel, put in the big injectors, and go for a drive. It took about 2 hours to get my BMW to run as good as factory after I swapped injectors, then it just got better from there. I'm not really loosing much time by altering the ECU first. The headaches it can save are priceless.

I think the MAF is stock. I know, that will have to be changed but, again, one thing at a time. Changing that and the injectors now would be sort of like polishing your shoes before you learn to walk.

slo98; I'm glad your car was doing the same thing as this one and it only needed a remap. That's the direction I will head. Now, to find a Tunerpro definition file for this thing...

 

[paramax55]

I had mentioned that someone was nice enough to remove the numbers from this computer. Can anyone tell me what strategies Ford might have used on a '99 2V modular?

 

[HotStart]

I had mentioned that someone was nice enough to remove the numbers from this computer. Can anyone tell me what strategies Ford might have used on a '99 2V modular?

Perhaps you addressed this in a post above, but did you check the passanger side door? The PCM code may be located on one of the stickers.

As for your issues, I would wait until you actually have the ability to alter the tune/datalog to address the issues. With as far as that car is from stock, it's pretty much pointless to try and figure out what's going on when it's operating off of the stock calibration.

The Alpha-N table you're referring to is the LWFM (load with failed MAF) under normal operation, it works as a transient fuel table (similar to using VE and Mass Air in the older GM applications, but used to a much lesser extent in Fords).

 

[paramax55]

Thanks hotstart. The reason I am trying to get my ducks in a row is that I am going to have this guy buy a QuarterHorse and they are expensive. I know for a fact that I can tune this thing in a couple of hours with a quarterhorse, Tunerpro, a .bin file, and a good definition file. I also know for a fact that I CAN'T tune it without a .bin file and a good definition file. I also know that I can play around with a good definition file and a good .bin without a quarterhorse. So, you see, everything centers around having a .bin and a definition file. They should be free, so I want to get them first.

I'll have him look in the door jam to see if the numbers for the computer are there.

 

[prostkr]

There is a reason most good ford tuners don't use quarter horse on fords. Your going to be better of with SCT PRP for his car or diablo single licence software to go with the chip he already has. It will come with your .bin files you need.

 

[paramax55]

What's wrong with quarter horse? My original post said that I wanted to use it and I was told that, if I am comfortable with TunerPro, go ahead. With A Diablo programmer, can you watch the computer access memory locations while you are driving and tune while you are going down the road? Or do you have to stop, shut off the car, pull the chip, program it, put it back, then drive some more?

I'm really asking because I truly don't know the answers to those questions. The Ostrich has been flawless in my car and tuning on the fly is the only way I intend to go.

 

[paramax55]

Will the ID# that shows up on an OBD scanner give me enough information to find out what computer we are dealing with?