96 Cobra Hellion 76mm Turbo Kit Install

Turbo98

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If you made a decent size jump in injectors, it's the tuner's job to get it right. Typically, a tuner will e-mail you a starter tune just to get the car close so you can safely drive it there. For the tuner to call and say something isn't right is correct. It's the tune, lol.
 

encasedmetal

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correct- being that you don't have a crazy combo- 99% of your base tune will be all value files anyways so as long as you stay out of boost if should be fine and just need fine adjustments to make perfection. that is unless something mechanical is wrong-just saying theoretically
 

b00stin

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The vehicle had stock injectors and stock fuel pump before the install. Stock pcm no tune. The vehicle drives fine off boost with a stumble here and there but it is definatley driveable. You can smell the fuel in the exhaust and will blow black smoke at times...its running.rich
 

b00stin

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btw this kit is the tuner kit. i supplied my own injectors and mass air flow sensor..THERE IS NO BASE TUNE INSTALLED. except for the mass air flow is calibrated for 60lb injectors. this is why i am baffled as to what the problem is. when you install big injectors and a fuel pump on a stock pcm no tune vehicle it is going to run rich correct?! Is there something i am misunderstanding here? lol
 

b00stin

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this is a picture of where my mass air flow sensor is located. they think that it may be too close to the turbo... but this is the way hellion sets it up with the mass air flow sensor they send as well...so i dont see why it would be any different?

cobrapost.gif


here is the maf i am using

2011-10-24_13-53-26_372.jpg
 

dark-knight

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Thats where my friends MAF is at aswell on his turbo 4v.

Quick question, and i dont mean to thread jack. But i take it you cant use a Cobra Maf with a turbo Set up?
 

619Cobra04

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In from kalamazoo! Nice to see some MI guys on here. Liking your thread man, can't wait to hear the numbers and times! Good luck!
 

saleensonoma

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god i hate michigan roads lol but sorry to here about issues. Have u talked/thought of going to Lidio for tuning?
 

b00stin

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In from kalamazoo! Nice to see some MI guys on here. Liking your thread man, can't wait to hear the numbers and times! Good luck!

Thank You sir. I can't wait for this thing to run right lol.

god i hate michigan roads lol but sorry to here about issues. Have u talked/thought of going to Lidio for tuning?

I have thought about it. I know someone who has worked with him in the past... I've heard he is super expensive though.
 

IUP99snake

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It could be some sort of vacuum/boost leak, and not just in the piping, but in every hose, tube, or valve that connects to the intake manifold or boost tubes. Given its got a draw through maf, everything past the maf is metered air.. Including the PCV's.

How are the pcv's routed? The pcv's themselves are supposed to be check valves but they don't do a good job holding boost.. Not to mention the large rubber fitting in the cam cover that they plug into can be leaky. If its leaking any boost, it'll create a rich condition because that is all metered air so the engine is thinking that air should be entering the engine but instead it is entering the wrong part of the engine through the pcv hoses and valves. It's adding the fuel it should be adding, but the air that should be accompanying that fuel is not there.

Try plugging up the pcv fittings on the pipes and/or the intake manifold and just running breathers on both sides. We can debate the use of breathers vs pcv vs crankcase vacuum pumps in another discussion, but this is just to temporarily eliminate one area where it is possible for the boost / metered air to be leaking.

Carefully bring it up to the trouble spot and see if it still happens..

Does anyone else agree with me that the PCV could be a possible trouble area? How does everyone else have their PCV set up?

I had breathers for the longest time. I can't remember how I had it before the breathers. I have a blow through maf setup. I just recently ran both PCV lines to a T fitting and routed a single line to the blower intake tube. After a few days, it tripped a check engine light and threw a lean code for both banks. No noticeable driveability or performance problems though. It can't be a metered air leak because it's routed before the MAF. I think the oil from the PCV may have gotten on the MAF being that I don't have oil catchers in the pcv lines. I've had that code before, and when I clean the MAF, the code goes away. I might hook up that hose to a vacuum port on the intake manifold after the throttle body where the drivers side pcv once was connected..but I'm probably just gonna put the breathers back on because I don't trust the PCV valves or the entire system to keep metered air contained. It worked fine with the breathers, and when I messed with it, I got a check engine light
 

spyder1337

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It could be some sort of vacuum/boost leak, and not just in the piping, but in every hose, tube, or valve that connects to the intake manifold or boost tubes. Given its got a draw through maf, everything past the maf is metered air.. Including the PCV's.

How are the pcv's routed? The pcv's themselves are supposed to be check valves but they don't do a good job holding boost.. Not to mention the large rubber fitting in the cam cover that they plug into can be leaky. If its leaking any boost, it'll create a rich condition because that is all metered air so the engine is thinking that air should be entering the engine but instead it is entering the wrong part of the engine through the pcv hoses and valves. It's adding the fuel it should be adding, but the air that should be accompanying that fuel is not there.

Try plugging up the pcv fittings on the pipes and/or the intake manifold and just running breathers on both sides. We can debate the use of breathers vs pcv vs crankcase vacuum pumps in another discussion, but this is just to temporarily eliminate one area where it is possible for the boost / metered air to be leaking.

Carefully bring it up to the trouble spot and see if it still happens..

Does anyone else agree with me that the PCV could be a possible trouble area? How does everyone else have their PCV set up?

I had breathers for the longest time. I can't remember how I had it before the breathers. I have a blow through maf setup. I just recently ran both PCV lines to a T fitting and routed a single line to the blower intake tube. After a few days, it tripped a check engine light and threw a lean code for both banks. No noticeable driveability or performance problems though. It can't be a metered air leak because it's routed before the MAF. I think the oil from the PCV may have gotten on the MAF being that I don't have oil catchers in the pcv lines. I've had that code before, and when I clean the MAF, the code goes away. I might hook up that hose to a vacuum port on the intake manifold after the throttle body where the drivers side pcv once was connected..but I'm probably just gonna put the breathers back on because I don't trust the PCV valves or the entire system to keep metered air contained. It worked fine with the breathers, and when I messed with it, I got a check engine light

This guy has more knowledge to diagnose your possible problem than your tuner. PCV could very well be the culprit in this. Drawthru setups can be a real pain in the ass. My hellion kit we had to have the correct values for the meter prior to tuning or it wouldn't work, something weird i've never heard of but was part of the problem.
 

b00stin

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i am working with chris at power adder solutions on a base tune. i sent him the values that came on the flow sheet for my mass air flow sensor.. something the prior tuner didnt even look into. im hoping that this is just a tuning issue and can be smoothed out. i swapped back to stock maf and injectors to cruise around temporarily to see if the stumble / bog went away... it did go away but now the car stalls out when coming to a stop.. im wondering if that is because of the stock maf or what...didnt stall out with the pro-m from what i can remember.. im wondering if i should just switch to a blow through mass air flow setup to eliminate all of this.
 
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IUP99snake

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i am working with chris at power adder solutions on a base tune. i sent him the values that came on the flow sheet for my mass air flow sensor.. something the prior tuner didnt even look into. im hoping that this is just a tuning issue and can be smoothed out. i swapped back to stock maf and injectors to cruise around temporarily to see if the stumble / bog went away... it did go away but now the car stalls out when coming to a stop.. im wondering if that is because of the stock maf or what...didnt stall out with the pro-m from what i can remember.. im wondering if i should just switch to a blow through mass air flow setup to eliminate all of this.

It sounds like a leak in either metered air before the throttle body or a vacuum leak after the throttle body. That's what might be causing it to stall out when coming to a stop. The car has the most vacuum at idle or when the throttle body is immediately closed (like when coming to a stop), therefore, if there's a vacuum leak, it's gonna be worst during these conditions.

It's leaking vacuum and metered air when coming to an idle, and it's leaking boost when you're getting into it.

I really think it has something to do with the way the PCV system is hooked up. I'm telling you, disconnect the PCV lines that connect to the turbo inlet pipe, boost tube between the turbo and throttle body, or intake manifold. (I'm not sure exactly where your PCV hoses are connected, but it's got to be 2 out of those 3.. all of which are metered air). When you disconnect them, the important thing is that you plug the bungs in the intake tract where both hoses connect. For the purpose of this test, it doesn't matter if the hoses coming from the crankcase don't connect to anything, just make sure they are secure from heat and moving parts. That'll eliminate the possibility of there being a vacuum/boost leak through the intake into the PCV system.

I recommend to eliminate any possibility of there being a metered-air PCV leak, either use breathers (little filters connected directly to the PCV valves on each valve cover), or you can run PCV hoses to a catch can with a filter on the top. That accomplishes the same thing, except it gives the oil vapor/smoke a single place to condense. Or, you could run both hoses into a T fitting to a single hose, and connect the single line before the MAF in the intake. Make sure to use an oil accumulator to reduce the likelihood of oil and smoke making the MAF dirty (which will throw a lean code because it's not reading accurately). It all depends on what state you live in and whether or not you have to pass an inspection or emissions test. If you aren't worried about emissions, just do breathers, or a catch can. That way, it's completely separate from the metered side of the intake.

The simplest setup by far is to just run breathers on each side and cap off the original fittings on the intake and boost tube where the PCV originally connected.

That eliminates any possibility of there being a vacuum/boost/metered air leak through the PCV system. Vacuum leaks are awful to track down, so having one less place for there to be a vacuum leak makes things a lot simpler to troubleshoot.

Oh, forgot to ask you. Is the check engine light on? If so, what codes is it showing? Do you have a boost/vacuum gauge? If so, how much vacuum is it showing at idle? If you have the gauge connected to the correct area in a vacuum line on the intake manifold, it should be reading around 20 in/hg at idle. If it's reading 15 or less in/hg at vacuum, I'd be suspicious of a leak.

Please, before you do anything else...plug the bungs where the PCV hoses connect to the intake tract and see how it runs. (don't plug the hoses coming from the PCV valves on either side of the engine. just let them hang loose for a test ride. It'll be ok if they are open for now. They are venting to the atmosphere, just like with breathers) But its very important you do this with both PCV hoses on either side of the engine. If I'm right, you'll notice an instant improvement in driveability. Smooth, steady idle, no hesitating, stalling, and no breaking up when you start to get in the boost. Do that and tell me what happens.

Good luck!

Homer
 

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