5.8L GT500 Rod Failure

MrAjsTech

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Just installed MFP Crank Support! This was definitely a must have supporting mod for the horsepower the car is currently pushing.
 

MrAjsTech

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Huge (3.8L huge) update! I'm going to go in order:

After installing the new MFP crank support in the car I felt much better about the crankshaft staying together. With a little bit of push from Cody Chaney(@cody_5.4) I got the car ready to take to Orlando Speed World with some fresh new ET Street R Bias Ply 28x11.5x15. The goal was simple: Get used to the car, find out what the VMP traps, and come home with a 9 second time slip and we did exactly that! I will admit I was a bit terrified to go down the track with this car. On the street I drive through the spin but for some reason I was scared of crashing, spinning, and breaking the car. Luckily everything went great and after my first test pass all the nervous shakes went away and I was ready to make a real pass. My car was lacking a major suspension component and that is a sway bar/anti roll bar but I decided to still try to make a pass anyway.
1st pass(partial run) 14.xx aborted run basically just did a 1-2 pull and let off.
2nd pass(bogged too low of launch RPM) 11.7 @ 146 MPH
3rd pass(spinning) 10.0 @ 148 MPH -(ding ding starting to see trap speed)
4th pass(spinning and too low of tire pressure) 9.6 @ 148 MPH (consistent trap speed) 1.61 60 foot.

Unfortunately with a test and tune that was all the passes I got to make that night. IAT2 were terrible and Cody and I developed a theory that the VMP intercooler core we used was not working properly as shown in the video. If I had another pass to make suspension and tire pressure changes I think we could have gotten the car down into a 1.4X- low 1.5X 60 foot and a 9.2-9.4 pass.


My ultimate goal is to go 8.9 or better keeping the car as streetable as possible. As of right now other than terrible gas milage(E85) you could drive the car anywhere with the radio and ac going and having a good time.

Fast forward a week and my new Whipple 3.8L arrived. This has been in the plans since July and I am super excited to test out what this new blower can do on a very capable 5.8L built motor.


Cody and I decided to remove the VMP intercooler core while the blower was off in order to test our theory about the intercooler core:


First start with the Whipple:

First drive and testing the theory of IAT2 issues. I was so relieved today to finally see normal IAT2 temps. VMP had suggested thought that the high IAT2 issues were because of the cam degree being advanced causing exhaust to go into the intake and therefore higher temps. Cody, myself, and Jordan at MHS were stumped and really didn't think this would cause that much issue. Cody and I were almost confirmed on our theory that the intercooler core was not flowing water through the entire core at the track. The blower was so hot you could cook an egg on it (IAT2 showing 170) but yet the water in the reservoir was about 80 degrees (able to touch with your finger)

This video captures a great example of the before temps with the VMP core vs the stock core.


I have a lot more to come. Feel free to ask me any questions and I will be updating this thread along the way.
 

Tezz500

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Huge (3.8L huge) update! I'm going to go in order:

After installing the new MFP crank support in the car I felt much better about the crankshaft staying together. With a little bit of push from Cody Chaney(@cody_5.4) I got the car ready to take to Orlando Speed World with some fresh new ET Street R Bias Ply 28x11.5x15. The goal was simple: Get used to the car, find out what the VMP traps, and come home with a 9 second time slip and we did exactly that! I will admit I was a bit terrified to go down the track with this car. On the street I drive through the spin but for some reason I was scared of crashing, spinning, and breaking the car. Luckily everything went great and after my first test pass all the nervous shakes went away and I was ready to make a real pass. My car was lacking a major suspension component and that is a sway bar/anti roll bar but I decided to still try to make a pass anyway.
1st pass(partial run) 14.xx aborted run basically just did a 1-2 pull and let off.
2nd pass(bogged too low of launch RPM) 11.7 @ 146 MPH
3rd pass(spinning) 10.0 @ 148 MPH -(ding ding starting to see trap speed)
4th pass(spinning and too low of tire pressure) 9.6 @ 148 MPH (consistent trap speed) 1.61 60 foot.

Unfortunately with a test and tune that was all the passes I got to make that night. IAT2 were terrible and Cody and I developed a theory that the VMP intercooler core we used was not working properly as shown in the video. If I had another pass to make suspension and tire pressure changes I think we could have gotten the car down into a 1.4X- low 1.5X 60 foot and a 9.2-9.4 pass.


My ultimate goal is to go 8.9 or better keeping the car as streetable as possible. As of right now other than terrible gas milage(E85) you could drive the car anywhere with the radio and ac going and having a good time.

Fast forward a week and my new Whipple 3.8L arrived. This has been in the plans since July and I am super excited to test out what this new blower can do on a very capable 5.8L built motor.


Cody and I decided to remove the VMP intercooler core while the blower was off in order to test our theory about the intercooler core:


First start with the Whipple:

First drive and testing the theory of IAT2 issues. I was so relieved today to finally see normal IAT2 temps. VMP had suggested thought that the high IAT2 issues were because of the cam degree being advanced causing exhaust to go into the intake and therefore higher temps. Cody, myself, and Jordan at MHS were stumped and really didn't think this would cause that much issue. Cody and I were almost confirmed on our theory that the intercooler core was not flowing water through the entire core at the track. The blower was so hot you could cook an egg on it (IAT2 showing 170) but yet the water in the reservoir was about 80 degrees (able to touch with your finger)

This video captures a great example of the before temps with the VMP core vs the stock core.


I have a lot more to come. Feel free to ask me any questions and I will be updating this thread along the way.

Noticed the hoods off. 3.8 Whipple doesn’t fit under the stock hood?

You plan on lowering the engine or getting a different hood?

This was one of the biggest reasons I went VMP. The added cost to lowering the engine was a huge turn off.
 

Catmonkey

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I'm interested in your impression of the "roval "throttle body on street operation.
 

biminiLX

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I'm interested in your impression of the "roval "throttle body on street operation.
Me too as these big TBs are not always street friendly. The real answer is I wish we had the more modern S550 (and I think maybe ‘18+) TB motors/electronics as that’s part of the equation trying to precisely control a huge blade while 20+psi being sucked thru it.
I’ve known a ‘13-14 car that had issues with the Roval on a Gen 5 Whipple 3.0, which may be this same TB.
Tuning crutches cleaned it up but it’s not that easy sometimes.
-J
 

Tezz500

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Huge (3.8L huge) update! I'm going to go in order:

After installing the new MFP crank support in the car I felt much better about the crankshaft staying together. With a little bit of push from Cody Chaney(@cody_5.4) I got the car ready to take to Orlando Speed World with some fresh new ET Street R Bias Ply 28x11.5x15. The goal was simple: Get used to the car, find out what the VMP traps, and come home with a 9 second time slip and we did exactly that! I will admit I was a bit terrified to go down the track with this car. On the street I drive through the spin but for some reason I was scared of crashing, spinning, and breaking the car. Luckily everything went great and after my first test pass all the nervous shakes went away and I was ready to make a real pass. My car was lacking a major suspension component and that is a sway bar/anti roll bar but I decided to still try to make a pass anyway.
1st pass(partial run) 14.xx aborted run basically just did a 1-2 pull and let off.
2nd pass(bogged too low of launch RPM) 11.7 @ 146 MPH
3rd pass(spinning) 10.0 @ 148 MPH -(ding ding starting to see trap speed)
4th pass(spinning and too low of tire pressure) 9.6 @ 148 MPH (consistent trap speed) 1.61 60 foot.

Unfortunately with a test and tune that was all the passes I got to make that night. IAT2 were terrible and Cody and I developed a theory that the VMP intercooler core we used was not working properly as shown in the video. If I had another pass to make suspension and tire pressure changes I think we could have gotten the car down into a 1.4X- low 1.5X 60 foot and a 9.2-9.4 pass.


My ultimate goal is to go 8.9 or better keeping the car as streetable as possible. As of right now other than terrible gas milage(E85) you could drive the car anywhere with the radio and ac going and having a good time.

Fast forward a week and my new Whipple 3.8L arrived. This has been in the plans since July and I am super excited to test out what this new blower can do on a very capable 5.8L built motor.


Cody and I decided to remove the VMP intercooler core while the blower was off in order to test our theory about the intercooler core:


First start with the Whipple:

First drive and testing the theory of IAT2 issues. I was so relieved today to finally see normal IAT2 temps. VMP had suggested thought that the high IAT2 issues were because of the cam degree being advanced causing exhaust to go into the intake and therefore higher temps. Cody, myself, and Jordan at MHS were stumped and really didn't think this would cause that much issue. Cody and I were almost confirmed on our theory that the intercooler core was not flowing water through the entire core at the track. The blower was so hot you could cook an egg on it (IAT2 showing 170) but yet the water in the reservoir was about 80 degrees (able to touch with your finger)

This video captures a great example of the before temps with the VMP core vs the stock core.


I have a lot more to come. Feel free to ask me any questions and I will be updating this thread along the way.

Watched the 3.8 Whipple vid.

Do you have a side by side Comparison Dyno graph for the VMPGen3R with JLT 148 vs Whipple 3.8 with the 1320 Junky CAI you used?
 

CD07GT500

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The other question is would the 2.65 make 1250 with the better intake as well. I would like to see the 148 3.8 vs 148 2.65 graph.
 

Tezz500

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The other question is would the 2.65 make 1250 with the better intake as well. I would like to see the 148 3.8 vs 148 2.65 graph.

I’m curious on price comparison and Full Dyno Graph. I wanna see the full RPM range compared on both set ups.
1144 RWHP with the VMP without the DD149 and I don’t have to drop the engine or an extra $2000.00 on a Whipple or change the hood, or use Whipple’s proprietary throttle bodies...

Lowering kits $550
+Install between $500-$1000?
Whipple 3.8+ TB/CAI $6200


Vs

VMP Gen3R $4299

I’m really curious to see if $3450.00 extra is worth it....
 

biminiLX

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I’m also suspect on the gains being attributed to the DD149. I have one in my shop but I just find it hard to take off my real CF JLT 155.
When the DD149 came out, I believe it was BJ McCarty who compared it with the 148 and found little gains but a lightly improved MAF signal. This was on 800+ rwhp
Now that we’re talking 1100+rwhp, maybe there is a benefit, but hard to believe that was the main issue.

1200+ is serious, I can’t wait to see that 3.8 at full song.
There is an efficiency range for all blowers, so I’m interested to see what happens when they up the boost.
Congrats Andrew.
-J
 

PM-Performance

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The other question is would the 2.65 make 1250 with the better intake as well. I would like to see the 148 3.8 vs 148 2.65 graph.

Point to remember though is his 3R was not off the shelf one was it? I thought he had whatever they coined at the super secret sauce ported version?
If this was an off the shelf version, then color me even more impressed with it. It held its own for sure.


Andrew, Killer numbers man! this thing is an absolute animal. Kudos to you for keeping it MANual as well! lol
 

CD07GT500

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Point to remember though is his 3R was not off the shelf one was it? I thought he had whatever they coined at the super secret sauce ported version?
If this was an off the shelf version, then color me even more impressed with it. It held its own for sure.


Andrew, Killer numbers man! this thing is an absolute animal. Kudos to you for keeping it MANual as well! lol

The SS is a modified version of the Gen3 R that VMP sells so that would be off the shelf. My point is based off the gains from swapping to a better intake it seems as if the 2.65 was being held back as well since it actually made more power than the 3.8 with the 148.
 
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PM-Performance

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The SS is a modified version of the Gen3 R that VMP sells so that would be off the shelf. My point is based off the gains from swapping to a better intake it seems as if the 2.65 was being held back as well since it actually made more power than the 3.8 with the 148.
well. . . . Kind of agree. Its technically off the shelf but its not the standard version by any means. Honestly, the only cars I have seen making confirmed big numbers were the "SS" version. Seems like the standard version have been a tad dismal. Just my opinion, so take it for what its worth. I do not think I have even seen a standard 3, let alone a 3R (non SSS) version break 1kwhp yet, but I could be wrong.
If the standard version was making that kind of power, opposed to the price you can get them for compared to the Whipple and what all is involved, I'd say its the better bang for the buck all things considered.

That being said, with elevated boost levels, I feel the 3R would have picked up pretty similar results with the DD. Anytime you are sucking in the most air you can into a rotor pack, I would think least restriction would be the best?
 

CD07GT500

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well. . . . Kind of agree. Its technically off the shelf but its not the standard version by any means. Honestly, the only cars I have seen making confirmed big numbers were the "SS" version. Seems like the standard version have been a tad dismal. Just my opinion, so take it for what its worth. I do not think I have even seen a standard 3, let alone a 3R (non SSS) version break 1kwhp yet, but I could be wrong.
If the standard version was making that kind of power, opposed to the price you can get them for compared to the Whipple and what all is involved, I'd say its the better bang for the buck all things considered.

That being said, with elevated boost levels, I feel the 3R would have picked up pretty similar results with the DD. Anytime you are sucking in the most air you can into a rotor pack, I would think least restriction would be the best?

I made 1215/1100 with the standard version. Lund made 1127 with the standard Gen 3. Lund made 1262/1035SAE with the Gen3R SS. So it does make sense that he had a inlet restriction holding his combo back based off what Lunds similar combo made.
 

PM-Performance

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Ahhh, I forgot about Lund. I did not realize that many many that power on the non ported version.
I just see people dumping them like crazy, and seeing sub 1kwhp numbers getting posted when they share the numbers.
Ok, I retract my statement, but I agree the 3r would gain with the DD and was likely a restriction
 

Tezz500

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well. . . . Kind of agree. Its technically off the shelf but its not the standard version by any means. Honestly, the only cars I have seen making confirmed big numbers were the "SS" version. Seems like the standard version have been a tad dismal. Just my opinion, so take it for what its worth. I do not think I have even seen a standard 3, let alone a 3R (non SSS) version break 1kwhp yet, but I could be wrong.
If the standard version was making that kind of power, opposed to the price you can get them for compared to the Whipple and what all is involved, I'd say its the better bang for the buck all things considered.

That being said, with elevated boost levels, I feel the 3R would have picked up pretty similar results with the DD. Anytime you are sucking in the most air you can into a rotor pack, I would think least restriction would be the best?

The Gen3RSS is a $500 upgrade. Still CONSIDERABLY cheaper than the Whipple 3.8L
 
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PM-Performance

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The Gen3RSS is a $500 upgrade. Still CONSIDERABLE cheaper than the Whipple 3.8L
Ok, that still keeps it in the bang for buck then. So I agree.
I still wonder why it seems a large number of people are dumping their VMP's for Whipples? Is it just the new koolaid? Or something they are not sharing in hopes it does not jeopardize the sale of their VMP to fund the Whipple?
I always want to ask, but it annoys me when people do that to me, so I refrain.It does peak my curiousity though.
 

Tezz500

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Ok, that still keeps it in the bang for buck then. So I agree.
I still wonder why it seems a large number of people are dumping their VMP's for Whipples? Is it just the new koolaid? Or something they are not sharing in hopes it does not jeopardize the sale of their VMP to fund the Whipple?
I always want to ask, but it annoys me when people do that to me, so I refrain.It does peak my curiousity though.

Lot of drama going on right now with VMP/MFP/1320Junkie... I would guess that’s most likely that’s what you’re seeing.

Me personally, VMP has delivered every single time. I have ZERO complaints and only compliments.

Buying a Supercharger that can grow with you while not having to buy a new hood, drop the engine, use Whipple’s proprietary TB etc... that was extremely appealing to me and fit my game plan perfectly.

What I’m curious about is if the Whipple, well over 1 Liter larger in size and considerably more expensive, is really worth the money and trouble...
 

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