I have been (too slowly) gathering parts to throw together a motor with a goal of 400hp. I currently have a gt, but am trying to work with an 05 aviator motor. Hope that the similarities with the mach will help figure out what works better. What are setups mach guys go with for high hp NA. Plan now is to go with the handful of modified manifold I have been poking at, and keep whatever one worked best, fr500 cam kit, flat top pistons and slightly shaved heads to try to sit at 11:1, I have been looking into doing stage 2 porting from livernois (unless something else would work better) and then of course the usual intake/exhaust/random bolt on parts. Id like to get away with spinning the motor to 7500rpms, and would prefer a mid-top end heavy power band. What are the odds ill be able to close in on 400hp, what would I need to make it happen, what are things I shouldn't skip out on? I have no set budget for the build, just whatever extra money I have from now until I feel im done with it. Goal is to have it done by mid spring next year so I can't really pitch in extra cash to do a 5.0BB without missing the targeted time frame.
400hp NA
- Thread starter DickH
- Start date
Parts list looks good. You should be right around 11.1, a GOOD tune should put you at 400 with that. Don't skimp on ur bottom end if you want it to last
Well I had planned on going with a "MMR Street Mod 1000 Rotating assembly" but I don't want to mess with the bottom until I get the top done. Would a stage 3 port job from livernois be too much for NA? I don't want to overdo it and end up spending more money to make slightly less power. How about cams, I am kind of eyeballing some hitech cams, might consider something from comp. I already have fr500 cams, but if there will be a noticable gain from going with something else ill have no objections to selling the fr500s.
Most who are looking to make power usually start with a built bottom because that is core of the engine. Id recommend you have that worked as well. That will keep costs down later on if it blows up. That sullivan is good and all, but it would do wonders for a F/I application because its so ported. But it shouldnt hurt you staying N/A and with that high of a compression it will like all that air. Also remember with more air, more fuel comes along with it. Research your fuel settings and where and how much you need your injectors at. It helps to talk to your tuner before you start the build so he and you both can get an idea of what's the best bang for the buck. And remember with cams, usually the larger you go, the better low to mid power will be and lessening on the upper. Are you planning on spraying? The way you have your engine build sheet going you could do a nice 100 shot with a good tune and should hold well. Buy like i said you'd be buying time with the stock.bottom and 11.1 compression
Well the motor wont go into the car until its done, so I really have no problem waiting for the bottom end. I am hesitant to do a 5L stroker, and dont want to buy all the bottom end parts now just in case I change my mind or come up with money for a BB block. I currently have 42# injectors on the side for this, and did plan on spraying 100/150 shot later on depending on how things go. I considered e85, but am not sure what all I would need to support e85 and a shot. The sullivan intake isnt too appealing to me, I have made a few short runner intakes that are just laying around and probably have 4 of those for the cost of buying one sullivan intake. I also have an aviator manifold I was working on but have abandoned.
Sounds like a pretty nasty N/A set-up!!
If your upping your compression by shaving the head, you'll need to run adjustable cam gears to take up the slack in the chains. Probably would have been easier to install new pistons. Or, you could install a thicker cosmitic headgasket back to stock compression and install new 11.1 pistons.
What pistons would get me 11:1? I thought flat tops gave ~10:1, and after that you needed to shave the heads? Hell if I can get away with both I will. What adjustable cam gears are recommended, I figured id need to get them anyway, but am paranoid about them moving on me.
stroke it... 5.0l or 5.3l .. def do the bottom end now...and if your doing it, might as well stroke it
Well I really really want to wait on the bottom end just in case I can obtain the money on a BB block. Its really not in my budget right now to spend an extra 1000 for just a block, but I want to wait anyway just in case I am able to save enough, or I get the raise id be due for. Right now I want to make sure I get the top end done right, doing that right is more important to me. So im really stuck on two things that im really unsure of. First, are stage 3 CNC heads from livernois too much for NA, what kind of gains would I have from stage 2 heads? And as far as cams, what are some recommended cams? How does the fr500 cams compare against something like comp XE270AH-114. Im under the impression that the fr500 cams are great, but mostly because they are cheap.
if you want n/a 4v build info get in touch with NASVT on these boards he is usually in the new edge cobra section. he has so much knowledge on building na mod motors and he is the one who ported my heads and specd my cams. i have not gotten it all put in yet cuase of school but im looking for a minimum of 370 380 and that is conservative on a ported stock intake and his hand port. sometimes porting the heads to much will hurt you when your staying n/a.
the fr500 cams are not very aggressive and dont make a ton of power. take a peek at this thread from corral.net it shows the combos and power numbers of all the N/A combinations. i love N/A and its nice to see someone else doing something similar. an aviator motor is already around 10.1.1 compression and with the heads milled 30 over you would be above 10.5.1 compression no need to build the block now if you dont want. im useing the stock bottom end cause i am building a big bore stroker on the side and just want my car running now
[ame=http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=515518]Official 4V Naturally Aspirated HP/TQ List - Corral.net : Ford Mustang Forums[/ame]
Stroker engines do just fine. Some of that early stuff was basic R&D. Piston manufacturers have it figured out now.
If you are staying 4.6, there wouldnt me much justification in going stage 3 vs stage 2 port. The smaller engine just doesnt need that much port volume.
Dump the FR500's. They're a nice mild cam but lack serious power compared to something in the 226 duration range. The HiTechs are great cams. So are the comps. Once you decide how high you are willing to spin the engine and the capabilities of your intake manifold, you can zero in on a cam grind. If you're shifting at 7000 RPM, you can stay in the 226 range for duration. If shifting at 7500 you will want at least 234 degrees duration.
If you are staying 4.6, there wouldnt me much justification in going stage 3 vs stage 2 port. The smaller engine just doesnt need that much port volume.
Dump the FR500's. They're a nice mild cam but lack serious power compared to something in the 226 duration range. The HiTechs are great cams. So are the comps. Once you decide how high you are willing to spin the engine and the capabilities of your intake manifold, you can zero in on a cam grind. If you're shifting at 7000 RPM, you can stay in the 226 range for duration. If shifting at 7500 you will want at least 234 degrees duration.
It depends on the parts, but 8k isn't out of the question.
Forget the sullivan intake unless you want a setup that makes power only above 7k. In fact, any intake with runners shorter than 8" will kill power below 6k and cause you to spin the engine higher than where the streetable trans likes to shift.
As Hutch said, strokers are fine, the work well and last a long time: there's no subsitute for cubic inches. Also, he's exactly right about the porting. I can't even come close to telling you how many people have gotten "Stg 3" port jobs and been disappointed with the results. In most cases a bowl ported head with some exhaust work is all that is needed. That goes for the cams also, "Stg 3" does not mean more power by any means.
The off the shelf Comp's (cams) are not what you want. Cam selection is going to be based on where you the combo to make power and the intake manifold you're gonna be using. The longer the intake runners the more duration you can get away with, but go with too much (dur) and you'll kill driveability and power in the usable rpm range.
It's very easy to make 380rwhp with a stock bottom end aviator engine, 400 gets a lot more costly.
HP doesn't have to empty the wallet.
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