350z's vs Mustang's open track?

[9746Cobra]

I noticed on these boards that an '06- 350z vs a Mustang GT is a drivers race on the drag strip.

How do they compare on a road course?

A little info: 350z's have 306hp, @3350lbs, 6-speed, naturally aspirated 3.5L V6. 12.6 inch rotors twin piston front, discs rear, 3.51 rear gear.

9746C

 

[wheelhopper]

It is even more of a drivers race on the road coarse. The new chassis and rear suspension make the Mustang handle much better out of the box than the previous years.

Just for the record. I'll eat up 350Z's all day long on the road course.

 

[ac427cobra]

I would think that on a majority of race tracks the Mustang will prevail with equal drivers. Unless the track is very tight and short then the Z might have an edge.

All of the Z's I see on track are VERY sloooow!

FWIW

 

[9746Cobra]

Once again svtperformance logs me out and I lose a very long post. :shrug::bash:

 

[9746Cobra]

Not sure why the 350z wouldn't better on a road course.

It's lighter (3350lbs), has about the same horsepower as a 2008 Mustang GT (306hp), a 6 speed, more modern suspension, bigger brakes, and probobly cuts the air better too.

I'm just thinking about the future and what my next daily driver/open track car will be.

Open track around the rolex 24 course is just 21 days away! I've got my fingers crossed that I don't melt any pistons or cook the rear end. I'll have to take it easy and that isn't nearly as much fun as gettin' it. The other two Cobras I know that are going are pullied (and well-tuned) but we'll see how they do. My next car will definatly be NA!

9746C

 

[ac427cobra]

Not sure why the 350z wouldn't better on a road course.

It's lighter (3350lbs), has about the same horsepower as a 2008 Mustang GT (306hp), a 6 speed, more modern suspension, bigger brakes, and probobly cuts the air better too.

I'm just thinking about the future and what my next daily driver/open track car will be.

Open track around the rolex 24 course is just 21 days away! I've got my fingers crossed that I don't melt any pistons or cook the rear end. I'll have to take it easy and that isn't nearly as much fun as gettin' it. The other two Cobras I know that are going are pullied (and well-tuned) but we'll see how they do. My next car will definatly be NA!

9746C

All I can say is it must be all of their drivers!? :shrug:

Why are you worried about melting pistons? You should have a conservative tune going to a road course, not an aggressive one! And the IRS really should have a cooler if you're going to be on track!

If the other two Cobra's have pullies without cooling mods you won't have to worry about them. They'll overheat! ;-) oke:

FWIW

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[wheelhopper]

I have to disagree somewhat, Bruce, to your statement that the pullied Cobra w/ out cooling mods will overheat. I think that it will depend on the experience level of the driver. Someone at your level probably will over heat the car.

I just finished my first year doing HPDE events. I have been soloed so I do alright. I drove my car in upper 95 degree temps in a Mercedes event and had no problems w/ my stock cooling system. I will admit that was my second event so I was not running it as hard as I did my final event of the year. My final event was in 65 degree temps. I ran the hell out of my car. Probably never dropped below 4000rpm. No issues there either.

My car is making near 500rwhp w/ no aftermarket cooling mods. It won't stay that way, but, I think Ford did a good job out the gate.


I do agree w/ the slowness of the 350Z's. Every one I have seen at the track is a turd.

Doug

 

[9746Cobra]

All I can say is it must be all of their drivers!? :shrug:

Why are you worried about melting pistons? You should have a conservative tune going to a road course, not an aggressive one! And the IRS really should have a cooler if you're going to be on track!

If the other two Cobra's have pullies without cooling mods you won't have to worry about them. They'll overheat! ;-) oke:

FWIW

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

Hmm? Guess I need to go to a 350z board and ask them how they compare with Mustangs.

I have the stock tune on my car, with a K&N FIPKII, off-road H, and welded in Flow M's. And 4.10's. Never had it on a dyno or checked the A/F.

The other two Cobras have more track time than me and haven't had over heating problems yet, but there is alot of straight time at Daytona. We'll have to cruise along in top gear @140 while the NA vettes and exotics blow are doors off. Thats gonna suck. Should do okay against the Audi's though. (They headline the event)

Just have to remind myself it's not a race, to be safe and have fun.

9746C

 

[ac427cobra]

I have to disagree somewhat, Bruce, to your statement that the pullied Cobra w/ out cooling mods will overheat. I think that it will depend on the experience level of the driver. Someone at your level probably will over heat the car.

I just finished my first year doing HPDE events. I have been soloed so I do alright. I drove my car in upper 95 degree temps in a Mercedes event and had no problems w/ my stock cooling system. I will admit that was my second event so I was not running it as hard as I did my final event of the year. My final event was in 65 degree temps. I ran the hell out of my car. Probably never dropped below 4000rpm. No issues there either.

My car is making near 500rwhp w/ no aftermarket cooling mods. It won't stay that way, but, I think Ford did a good job out the gate.


I do agree w/ the slowness of the 350Z's. Every one I have seen at the track is a turd.

Doug

Doug:

I wholeheartedly agree that nooobs will have few cooling issues. :beer:

Depending on the track, a pullied motor will run very hot without cooling mods. But, once you start drving the car at WOT the S/C builds a LOT of heat.

Hmm? Guess I need to go to a 350z board and ask them how they compare with Mustangs.

I have the stock tune on my car, with a K&N FIPKII, off-road H, and welded in Flow M's. And 4.10's. Never had it on a dyno or checked the A/F.

The other two Cobras have more track time than me and haven't had over heating problems yet, but there is alot of straight time at Daytona. We'll have to cruise along in top gear @140 while the NA vettes and exotics blow are doors off. Thats gonna suck. Should do okay against the Audi's though. (They headline the event)

Just have to remind myself it's not a race, to be safe and have fun.

9746C

The main thing to remember at track events is to NOT drive over your head. If you 'think' you're driving over your head, you most likely are.

Also don't worry about who you're passing or who's passing you. Just go out and have some fun and most of all, be safe!

Good Luck.

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[brkntrxn]

The instructor I had at the event I attended in October had a newer 350Z. He took me for a ride one session and it felt extremely strong on acceleration, rotated very nicely in the turns when needed and stuck when pointed. The course was set up inside the Rockingham oval, so it is somewhere under 1.5miles with 7 turns. Either way, I walked away from that ride with a new respect for the 350Z and a slight desire to get behind the wheel of one myself.

 

[9746Cobra]

Found some info from the Nov 2006 Car & Driver.

They took 17 cars around VIR. Four drivers each drove four or five cars three to five laps each. Times and speeds were recorded for the Lap and in various sectors of the track.

Just to simply for this thread, here are the best times for a few of them. (4.2mi course)

Ford GT 3:00.7
Z06 3:01.1
Elise 3:09.2
Corvette 3:09.3
Caymen S 3:09.5
GT500 3:11
350z Track 3:12.5
Evo MR 3:13.5
RX-8 3:19
Cobalt SS 3:20.6
Mustang GT 3:20.6
Mazda Mx-5 3:29.3

So the best time in the 350z was over seven seconds faster than the best time in the Mustang GT. I'd call that a whuppin'.

Whats impressive was the GT500 wasn't too far off from the base 'vette.

Of course that was these four drivers, on this day, with these tires etc etc.

I'm still concerned that my '03 will have me backing off the throttle often to keep it from going into limp. I'm thinking about taking the '97 Cobra instead.

9746C

 

[ac427cobra]

There some different "Full Course" configurations at VIR and if this is the same one I've been on those are some impressive times.

Clearly the guys driving the cars knew the track well.

There were several suprises on that list. The GT500 was one of them!

Here are the curb weights of the two subject cars:


Z car = Weights: curb weight (lbs) 3,212

Mustang Curb Weight, lbs. 3,373

The Mustang is at a 161# weight disadvantage. So that's like being on track with a passenger. And we all know how much that slows us down.

Well then I guess you found your answer! :-D Which also says 350Z drivers are < Mustang drivers. ;-)

There are a lot of cars that would surprise you on track if they had a competent driver in them! :thumbsup:

 

[9746Cobra]

They weighed all the cars before testing.

The Mustang GT premium: 3579lbs
350z: 3334lbs
GT500: 3887lbs
Corvette: 3270lbs
Corvette Z06: 3156lbs
Ford GT: 3508lbs

You might be right about the 350z drivers! I'm sure they'd disagree though!

Oh, I can't stop thinking about my 03 Cobra going into limp or burning pistons at Daytona, I think I'll take the '97 Cobra instead.

9746C

 

[9746Cobra]

There some different "Full Course" configurations at VIR and if this is the same one I've been on those are some impressive times.

They listed their course as 4.2 miles, if that helps.

 

[ac427cobra]

They weighed all the cars before testing.

The Mustang GT premium: 3579lbs
350z: 3334lbs
GT500: 3887lbs
Corvette: 3270lbs
Corvette Z06: 3156lbs
Ford GT: 3508lbs

You might be right about the 350z drivers! I'm sure they'd disagree though!

Oh, I can't stop thinking about my 03 Cobra going into limp or burning pistons at Daytona, I think I'll take the '97 Cobra instead.

9746C

Well, according to those numbers the Mustang GT is at an even greater weight disadvantage of 245#.

What is also very surprising is the Ford GT whoops up the C6-Z06 while being at a hefty 352# weight disadvantage. In this instance I can't use my standard "Corvette Driver" comment because all of the drivers were the same. ;-)

If you have a conservative tune on your '03 you should be ok depending on how hard you're going to be driving it and what the ambient temps are going to be.

FWIW

 

[racebronco2]

You might be right about the 350z drivers! I'm sure they'd disagree though!

Oh, I can't stop thinking about my 03 Cobra going into limp or burning pistons at Daytona, I think I'll take the '97 Cobra instead.

9746C

If the temps are under 70degrees i wouldn't worry about it. I would try and find another hood so that you can modify to allow the engine to run about 15-20 degrees cooler. I forgot that your not pullied so if the temps are under 80 degrees you should be fine.

 

[racebronco2]

I would agree that most of the z's can't keep up with gt's but there are some fast ones out here that i can't keep up to, carbon fibre body panels, turbos and race tires.

 

[9746Cobra]

I'll be down there Dec 9th, so I doubt it will be 80 degrees.

Still, everyone says it's the 140mph pulls over and over that kill these motors, and thats what I'll be doing. In 5th gear too because of my 4.10 gears.

I'll be using the boost on the infield too so there won't be much of a break. I was thinking of putting it in 6th at 140mph and keeping on the gas but out of boost. That would be it's only break.

I'm going to start another thread about 03's getting too hot during OT's.

9746C

 

[racebronco2]

Still, everyone says it's the 140mph pulls over and over that kill these motors, and thats what I'll be doing. In 5th gear too because of my 4.10 gears.

I'll be using the boost on the infield too so there won't be much of a break. I was thinking of putting it in 6th at 140mph and keeping on the gas but out of boost. That would be it's only break.

I'm going to start another thread about 03's getting too hot during OT's.

9746C

I would think with stock gears 4th and 5th gear pulls puts the load on the engine too long and therefor heat builds up. But with 4.10's you won't need all the rpms to keep up with most cars. Keep an eye on your temp gauge, leave the heater on full blast on the upper vents not the floor vents cause your feet will get really hot. Stock pulley vs a 3.10 is about 15-20 degrees cooler then a 3.10 pulley.

 

[wheelhopper]

What I think is impressive on the weight of the cars Car and Driver tested is that the Z06 is lighter than the base Vette. It would be nice if Ford would follow their lead. The performance of the GT500 would be awesome on track at 3,450lbs.