350 Lawsuit

[13COBRA]

13COBRA, I think you are not looking at all the advertising. There is little if any distinction made between the various levels of GT350. Additionally, a GT350 should last longer on the track than a base GT. At least the hype referring back to the original GT350's supported this idea. Read Najir's interview about the car. All about the track development and capability and nothing saying, "but the tech car will fizzle out after 10 or 15 minutes."

I've seen every pamphlet and advertisement on these cars. You can't even find a picture of a Tech car on the track.

Ford did not intend for the Tech Pack to be a track car; they intended the Track and R cars to be taken to the track.

This conversation is becoming mundane and ridiculous.

 

[Corbic]

I've seen every pamphlet and advertisement on these cars. You can't even find a picture of a Tech car on the track.

Ford did not intend for the Tech Pack to be a track car; they intended the Track and R cars to be taken to the track.

This conversation is becoming mundane and ridiculous.

Red Bull does not give you wings!!

 

[13COBRA]

Original 2016 GT350 pamphlet.

I'm not sure what I was thinking, if the main selling points are a garage door opener, heated/cooled seats, navigation, and outside mirror turn signals; how could the Tech Package NOT be taken as a track dedicated car? Especially while the Track Package only advertised performance enhancements. (Sarcasm).

Also, Ford states "Performance is not one-size-fits-all..." then goes on to explain that there were 5 different options that all fit different performance demands and purposes.

I wish I was Ford's defense on this if it ever reaches the courtroom. I would start off my defense by saying "you've got to be kidding me" followed by the Rock's eyebrow.

Also, I have a bunch of these brochures if anyone wants one. I have a ton of 2016 and 2017s. Just cover shipping and you can have as many as you want.

 

[barstowpo]

Notice on the pamphlet posted by 13COBRA the tech pack clearly says, "All GT350 content, with these changes and additions." Nowhere does it say coolers deleted. The tech pack was more expensive. Seems to have been intended to be more upscale. It should perform as well as a lower model. If I could have ordered one with dual zone climate control, leather seats, AND coolers I would have. As the owners manual implied, I expected it to be easier to add factory coolers than it would have been to upgrade the radio and seats. Guess I was wrong. Same crappy service as the time they denied warranty on my sons new SVT Focus.

 

[AustinSN]

Notice on the pamphlet posted by 13COBRA the tech pack clearly says, "All GT350 content, with these changes and additions." Nowhere does it say coolers deleted. The tech pack was more expensive. Seems to have been intended to be more upscale. It should perform as well as a lower model. If I could have ordered one with dual zone climate control, leather seats, AND coolers I would have. As the owners manual implied, I expected it to be easier to add factory coolers than it would have been to upgrade the radio and seats. Guess I was wrong. Same crappy service as the time they denied warranty on my sons new SVT Focus.

That's because the car doesn't come with coolers.

You are adding a tech package to a base car. Coolers don't magically get deleted when you order a tech car, but they do get added when you order a track car/350R.

 

[ON D BIT]

I doubt the pamphlet says the you get what's in the track pack plus the additional tech package.

Everything from as far back as summer 15 has stated very clearly what comes in each package.

 

[JCSIX13]

Original 2016 GT350 pamphlet.

I'm not sure what I was thinking, if the main selling points are a garage door opener, heated/cooled seats, navigation, and outside mirror turn signals; how could the Tech Package NOT be taken as a track dedicated car? Especially while the Track Package only advertised performance enhancements. (Sarcasm).

View attachment 86453

Also, Ford states "Performance is not one-size-fits-all..." then goes on to explain that there were 5 different options that all fit different performance demands and purposes.

I wish I was Ford's defense on this if it ever reaches the courtroom. I would start off my defense by saying "you've got to be kidding me" followed by the Rock's eyebrow.

View attachment 86454


Also, I have a bunch of these brochures if anyone wants one. I have a ton of 2016 and 2017s. Just cover shipping and you can have as many as you want.

I would love to get a couple. How much would shipping be to 02771?

Thanks
Jack

 

[13COBRA]

Notice on the pamphlet posted by 13COBRA the tech pack clearly says, "All GT350 content, with these changes and additions." Nowhere does it say coolers deleted. The tech pack was more expensive. Seems to have been intended to be more upscale. It should perform as well as a lower model. If I could have ordered one with dual zone climate control, leather seats, AND coolers I would have. As the owners manual implied, I expected it to be easier to add factory coolers than it would have been to upgrade the radio and seats. Guess I was wrong. Same crappy service as the time they denied warranty on my sons new SVT Focus.

First off, you couldn't be more out in left field.

The "GT350" it references is the BASE CAR. The Track Package says "all GT350 (BASE) plus: *insert performance parts*.

Upscale cars don't have to perform better than the race version of the vehicle. Go look at Mercedes, Porsche, etc. Their top of the line luxury vehicles do not touch their performance vehicles.

At this point you're really reaching, and you're still wrong.

I would love to get a couple. How much would shipping be to 02771?

Thanks
Jack

Jack,

It can't be much, probably a couple bucks? I'll check tomorrow when I get back in the office. Would you just like one of each? (One 2016 and one 2017?)

 

[barstowpo]

And likely they don't experience limp mode in heavy traffic on the street like I have.

 

[Snoopy49]

Something that has not been mentioned is the fact a large percentage of the car salesmen involved in the selling of these vehicles are clueless when it comes to these cars. They will say anything to sell a car. All the dealerships around me ordered Tech cars for their stock. I remember talking to the salesman at my local dealership about their 2016 GT350 Tech and asked them how the car works on the track. He said that they were designed for the track and they work great. I asked him about the problems some of the Tech had with overheating when tracked and he didn't believe it, after all it's a GT350. I had a similar experience with the salesman I bought my car from, he was convinced that all the GT500's started life as a Mustang GT 5.0 and where shipped to Las Vegas for conversion to a GT500.
Most of the GT500 owners I have talked too had done their research and knew far more about the GT500 than the salesman. But I imagine there are a lot of customers that rely on the salesmen for information. Since none of the dealerships I contacted, with the exception of your dealership, had a dedicated SVT salesman and they only get 1 possibly 2 cars a year, so they don't seem to have a reason to waste money on training for these cars.

When exactly did the overheating problem get noticed by the public and when did Ford acknowledge the problem? Ford had to have known about it the first time they took a base or tech car on a road course, the fact that it is noted in the Owners manual supplement shows that they were aware of a problem, but they don't mention that if you track the car, it may go into the limp mode 10-15 minutes into the race.
I didn't know about the problem until I read it on SVT Performance sometime in 2016.

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

Something that has not been mentioned is the fact a large percentage of the car salesmen involved in the selling of these vehicles are clueless when it comes to these cars. They will say anything to sell a car. All the dealerships around me ordered Tech cars for their stock. I remember talking to the salesman at my local dealership about their 2016 GT350 Tech and asked them how the car works on the track. He said that they were designed for the track and they work great. I asked him about the problems some of the Tech had with overheating when tracked and he didn't believe it, after all it's a GT350. I had a similar experience with the salesman I bought my car from, he was convinced that all the GT500's started life as a Mustang GT 5.0 and where shipped to Las Vegas for conversion to a GT500.
Most of the GT500 owners I have talked too had done their research and knew far more about the GT500 than the salesman. But I imagine there are a lot of customers that rely on the salesmen for information. Since none of the dealerships I contacted, with the exception of your dealership, had a dedicated SVT salesman and they only get 1 possibly 2 cars a year, so they don't seem to have a reason to waste money on training for these cars.

When exactly did the overheating problem get noticed by the public and when did Ford acknowledge the problem? Ford had to have known about it the first time they took a base or tech car on a road course, the fact that it is noted in the Owners manual supplement shows that they were aware of a problem, but they don't mention that if you track the car, it may go into the limp mode 10-15 minutes into the race.
I didn't know about the problem until I read it on SVT Performance sometime in 2016.

It doesn't matter if Ford knew or not, they NEVER marketed the tech pack cars as track cars.

I do agree that sales people probably spoke out of their ass and made up a few "facts" in order to help the sale get done. Those are the sales people that make money and last in the business.

When I sold cars years ago, I was the most knowledgeable salesman on the floor, and never pressured my customers and trusted them too. Well, let's just say I didn't make shit for sales and $$. It's a tough job that I would with 100% certainty would never do again. A little off the subject, but any complaints about sales people and how business is conducted, in reality, is caused by the customer.

 

[13COBRA]

Something that has not been mentioned is the fact a large percentage of the car salesmen involved in the selling of these vehicles are clueless when it comes to these cars. They will say anything to sell a car. All the dealerships around me ordered Tech cars for their stock. I remember talking to the salesman at my local dealership about their 2016 GT350 Tech and asked them how the car works on the track. He said that they were designed for the track and they work great. I asked him about the problems some of the Tech had with overheating when tracked and he didn't believe it, after all it's a GT350. I had a similar experience with the salesman I bought my car from, he was convinced that all the GT500's started life as a Mustang GT 5.0 and where shipped to Las Vegas for conversion to a GT500.
Most of the GT500 owners I have talked too had done their research and knew far more about the GT500 than the salesman. But I imagine there are a lot of customers that rely on the salesmen for information. Since none of the dealerships I contacted, with the exception of your dealership, had a dedicated SVT salesman and they only get 1 possibly 2 cars a year, so they don't seem to have a reason to waste money on training for these cars.

When exactly did the overheating problem get noticed by the public and when did Ford acknowledge the problem? Ford had to have known about it the first time they took a base or tech car on a road course, the fact that it is noted in the Owners manual supplement shows that they were aware of a problem, but they don't mention that if you track the car, it may go into the limp mode 10-15 minutes into the race.
I didn't know about the problem until I read it on SVT Performance sometime in 2016.

Kinda why I started the Q&A with a Dealer thread. You may buy a car from a guy that's been there a week, or 10 years. Either guy may know all about the specialty cars, or not know a thing.

I don't like people thinking my employees are idiots, so they are required to be up to date on their "normal" vehicle lines and I help out with the performance lines or specialty vehicles.

It doesn't matter if Ford knew or not, they NEVER marketed the tech pack cars as track cars.

I do agree that sales people probably spoke out of their ass and made up a few "facts" in order to help the sale get done. Those are the sales people that make money and last in the business.

When I sold cars years ago, I was the most knowledgeable salesman on the floor, and never pressured my customers and trusted them too. Well, let's just say I didn't make shit for sales and $$. It's a tough job that I would with 100% certainty would never do again. A little off the subject, but any complaints about sales people and how business is conducted, in reality, is caused by the customer.

It's hard to make money up front by doing things rights, after a 8 months or so, it becomes much more sustainable. You build relationships, not sales. I made more money off of commissions selling cars than I make now.

 

[GT Premi]

I wonder if the fact that they paid enormous markups is a major reason why this lawsuit came about. I'm sure they had to have known they were buying the wrong car for tracking, but adding in the fact they paid $15K+ above sticker for a car that they can't enjoy on a track is the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[13COBRA]

I wonder if the fact that they paid enormous markups is a major reason why this lawsuit came about. I'm sure they had to have known they were buying the wrong car for tracking, but adding in the fact they paid $15K+ above sticker for a car that they can't enjoy on a track is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Those dang ADMs huh? lol

 

[barstowpo]

All these cars were marketed as being the most track capable Mustang ever. All the interviews, printed information and articles referred to the track heritage of the GT350. To say otherwise is akin to putting your heads in the sand. Ford tried to save a few bucks, deleted the trans temp gauge and hoped no one would notice. They then corrected the error in the 2017 models without providing 2016 owners an equitable remedy. As I have said before, I already bought a new transmission and cooler kit. I probably would have been satisfied to have this warrantied. Instead we're told that we're on our own. I did not want something for nothing. Nor did I buy the wrong car. I simply took ford at their word and have been left disappointed.

 

[13COBRA]

All these cars were marketed as being the most track capable Mustang ever. All the interviews, printed information and articles referred to the track heritage of the GT350. To say otherwise is akin to putting your heads in the sand. Ford tried to save a few bucks, deleted the trans temp gauge and hoped no one would notice. They then corrected the error in the 2017 models without providing 2016 owners an equitable remedy. As I have said before, I already bought a new transmission and cooler kit. I probably would have been satisfied to have this warrantied. Instead we're told that we're on our own. I did not want something for nothing. Nor did I buy the wrong car. I simply took ford at their word and have been left disappointed.

Please show me where your claims are coming from.

EVERY SINGLE advertisement talking about the GT350 being a track car either shows a picture of the GT350R or a Track Pack car. Every single one.

I'd love to see where a base or Tech car were being touted as the most track worthy Mustang in history.

 

[DAVESVT2000]

His last sentence sums it up for most of these disgruntled buyers

"I simply took ford at their word and have been left disappointed"

Once again the ongoing problem of America, blame someone else for not doing your homework or research.

I was going to buy a 2017 track pack, but for reasons posted else where in this forum I did not, and instead bought a Raptor. But anyways, I open track my cars a few times a year for fun, and fully knew what I wanted from doing my research, and a track pack would have fit my needs perfectly, but not a tech pack 2016.

I have the same feeling about all these people that got underwater in their home loans and mortgages a few years back crying to the government about "predatory lenders", but that's a whole other subject.

 

[GT Premi]

Not only that. Every track review you read or watch is of a Track Pack or an R. The reason Ford included the coolers on the '17 cars is because of market research/demand. A large number of y'all complained that you couldn't get your precious heated/cooled Barcalounger seats in a Track Pack car. The Barcaloungers won over trackability. But Ford still listened and started offering the coolers as standard gear in '17.

You got what you wanted more in the first place, and you want Ford to retroactively upfit your cars??

 

[13COBRA]

I sold 2 Track Pack cars to other dealers at $15k and $13k over MSRP.

I sold a Tech Pack car the next week to another dealer for $5k over MSRP.

Yes, still a lot of money...but the Track packs were pulling almost a $10k premium. I think that was back in November of 2015.

 

[13COBRA]

MSM:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/shelby...on-the-track/?src=socialflowFB&mag=cdb&dom=fb

The lawsuit claims that since Ford advertised all GT350 models as “track-ready” and employed features such as a Track mode, the cars were “defective,” “dangerous” to other drivers on the track, and caused owners costly repairs, which it did not specify.

So, all Ford has to do is show their advertisement of track-readiness only showing the Track Package and the R.