2021 Dodge Durango, Charger SRT Hellcat Redeye and 2020 Challenger SRT Super Stock.

[Corbic]

I love their cars and their engines as I do the GT500...The simple truth is that they're fat pigs and just keep adding power to a 14 year old platform...Plus if you can't hook it up then most of the power goes to waste just as when the C8 smoked the Demon earlier in the week...The first automaker that spends the extra $$$ and goes all wheel drive will be the big winner...The GTR kicked ass and now the Teslas do...Come on American manufacturers get with it...A big horsepower SUV is just a big gas guzzler and what R U going to rce, other SUVs......whoopdedo...just my .02 worth.

Except it took Ford 5 years to "answer" the number smashing Hellcat and even then the GT500 is also +4,000lb pig.

That C8 vs Demon video is click bait. I could drag race a Topfuel Dragster in the rain and calm to be faster as well.

I agree on the AWD. I've said that for years now. GT500 should have had a sophisticated AWD system if Ford wanted to impress me with technology and road course prowess.

Porsche, Nissan and, Audi all figured this out in the 1980's.

I'm surprised FCA hadn't done it yet. LX cars are all AWD capable and they have the parts... Sooo? Unless they've tried and they know the guy that buys an AWD Redeye is also the guy that tunes it to 1000hp and puts slicks on it and the system will explode.

As for Pig Powa trucks, Europeans have done it for decades with Supercharged Land Rovers and turbo G-wagons. Shits just fun. Hell, Ford even once thought that and made a S/C F150, called in the Lightening. Crazy times.

 

[Blk04L]

I'm surprised FCA hadn't done it yet. LX cars are all AWD capable and they have the parts... Sooo? Unless they've tried and they know the guy that buys an AWD Redeye is also the guy that tunes it to 1000hp and puts slicks on it and the system will explode.

Sounds like non warranty work, which would be a win-win for FCA though. lol

An AWD American "muscle" car would be tits though.

Yea, people want power and size in America. Even Bentley,Rolls and Lamborghini now have SUVs with some power in them. See them quite a bit in the upscale areas.

Neighbor has an all yellow Urus. Not my favorite color for it, but still very nice.

Any one complaining about gas mileage in higher HP vehicles is a commie.

 

[My94GT]

Sounds like non warranty work, which would be a win-win for FCA though. lol

An AWD American "muscle" car would be tits though.

Yea, people want power and size in America. Even Bentley,Rolls and Lamborghini now have SUVs with some power in them. See them quite a bit in the upscale areas.

Neighbor has an all yellow Urus. Not my favorite color for it, but still very nice.

Any one complaining about gas mileage in higher HP vehicles is a commie.

The GT500 is already an amazing package even at its price point, imagine if it had awd. It would be a terror for others in and above it’s segment.

 

[csc427]

So you’re right the GT500 is the best balanced car and for that and many reasons it’ll be my next Mustang.
That said, there is no reason the GT500 or ANY Mustang model doesn’t have at least one package catering to street/strip performance. I don’t think they should stop the Handling Package cars, just balance it with what many people have been wanting and because none exist, have left for Dodge SRT.
-J

Totally agree. Keep the base car, have a track pack car option, and offer drag car option. And I’d be willing to bet the drag car option would outsell the track option. No reason you couldn’t appeal to all crowds. Fords lineup could be:
Base gt500
Gt500 track option
Gt500 drag pack
Explorer gt with gt500 motor
Taurus gt awd gt500 motor
Raptor with gt500 motor
Who wouldn’t be pumped about this lineup? Imagine that poster and cool commercial. Lol.

 

[My94GT]

Totally agree. Keep the base car, have a track pack car option, and offer drag car option. And I’d be willing to bet the drag car option would outsell the track option. No reason you couldn’t appeal to all crowds. Fords lineup could be:
Base gt500
Gt500 track option
Gt500 drag pack
Explorer gt with gt500 motor
Taurus gt awd gt500 motor
Raptor with gt500 motor
Who wouldn’t be pumped about this lineup? Imagine that poster and cool commercial. Lol.

even if they put that new NA motor that they have in the F250 in the raptor I bet that would make people happy

 

[Corbic]

even if they put that new NA motor that they have in the F250 in the raptor I bet that would make people happy

It's actually a bit strange how Ford offers hundreds of F-series configurations with dozens of engines... But then refuses to offer the Raptor with anything but the 3.5TT.

I'm willing to bet they simply don't want there to be a narrative that consumers buy the Coyote version over the Ecoboost despite the Ecoboost's "superiority".


Tremor has both a 7.3 and 6.7 option...

 

[My94GT]

It's actually a bit strange how Ford offers hundreds of F-series configurations with dozens of engines... But then refuses to offer the Raptor with anything but the 3.5TT.

I'm willing to bet they simply don't want there to be a narrative that consumers buy the Coyote version over the Ecoboost despite the Ecoboost's "superiority".


Tremor has both a 7.3 and 6.7 option...

mig the raptor had even the 5.0 I would have bought it. I know it sounds lame but for the price point it was at I couldn’t get pst the horrid sound. I “settled” and went with the ram instead and have zero regrets. I’m curious to see how the TRX stacks up.

 

[GTSpartan]

mig the raptor had even the 5.0 I would have bought it. I know it sounds lame but for the price point it was at I couldn’t get pst the horrid sound. I “settled” and went with the ram instead and have zero regrets. I’m curious to see how the TRX stacks up.

Unless the Raptor sees some very significant upgrades along with the new F150, the TRX will destroy it. Knowing how FCA rolls, it'll likely be damn near a trophy truck.

The Raptor is the benchmark, the O.G., the king....It's also a know quantity that the competition can easily target.

 

[TerminatoRS]

Thinking "out loud" about AWD in the Mustang, Hellcats, etc...
Wouldn't that take away from the heritage of what's considered an American muscle car? Front engine, rear drive, four seats even if the rears are useless... Again, just spit-balling here, but I've always believed that there's a distinct recipe that composes a muscle car. I understand the obvious benefits of AWD and a bus load of power, but isn't lighting up the rear tires through three gears part of what makes the cars what they are?

 

[C0bra99]

Looks like dodge is wringing out every last drop out of that hellcat engine. How they want to forget that over priced trackhawk. You think the Durango is going to sell for 100k? This is just a warmed up rehash. Its like the leftovers that have been sitting in the fridge for a week but you're too lazy to make anything new and just pop it in the microwave.

 

[kaz109]

Except it took Ford 5 years to "answer" the number smashing Hellcat and even then the GT500 is also +4,000lb pig.

That C8 vs Demon video is click bait. I could drag race a Topfuel Dragster in the rain and calm to be faster as well.

I agree on the AWD. I've said that for years now. GT500 should have had a sophisticated AWD system if Ford wanted to impress me with technology and road course prowess.

Porsche, Nissan and, Audi all figured this out in the 1980's.

I'm surprised FCA hadn't done it yet. LX cars are all AWD capable and they have the parts... Sooo? Unless they've tried and they know the guy that buys an AWD Redeye is also the guy that tunes it to 1000hp and puts slicks on it and the system will explode.

As for Pig Powa trucks, Europeans have done it for decades with Supercharged Land Rovers and turbo G-wagons. Shits just fun. Hell, Ford even once thought that and made a S/C F150, called in the Lightening. Crazy times.

This is the second time I have seen that you posted it took Ford " X " amount of years to respond to the hellcat and that couldn't be farther from the truth. If anything dodge is late to the party.

How long was dodge getting waxed by GT500s before the hellcat came along. I am not familiar with the Generation GT500 but I know from like 2010 and on the GT500 has been dominant.

I could be wrong because I don't pay close attention to either

 

[Corbic]

This is the second time I have seen that you posted it took Ford " X " amount of years to respond to the hellcat and that couldn't be farther from the truth. If anything dodge is late to the party.

How long was dodge getting waxed by GT500s before the hellcat came along. I am not familiar with the Generation GT500 but I know from like 2010 and on the GT500 has been dominant.

I could be wrong because I don't pay close attention to either

Well, maybe you should pay attention.

1989 Nissan 300ZX 300hp Twin Turbo
1993 Toyota Supra 500whp Capable Factory Car!

2003 SVT Cobra - America's first mass produced 500whp capable factory boosted car. The car takes the internet and street racing scene by storm...

2004 - Cobraaaaahhhhh

2005 - Herpa Derpa 3vallvvzzz

2006 - Herpa Derpa Shelba GT350!!!

2007- New GT500!gave us an abortion of a bloated car with 500hp that was effectively slower than the previous Terminator. But hey, Boomers love Carol Shelby!!!

2009 rolls around and Chevy is king shit with the 580hp LSA engined CTS-V and 2012 Camaro.

2013, Ford is finally laughing with the amazing Bespoke German engineered 5.8L aluminum block and sleeved 662hp GT500! Just don't break it!

2014, Ford thinks it's a great time to retire the King.. And damn Italians drops a 707hp Hellcat Challenger....

Not only does the marketing crush the "Shelby" hype, but Dodge also promises to ensure everyone gets a Hellcat! Screw all the Ford ADM drama surrounding GT500 allocation. Who does Ford think they are... Ferrari?

Dodge also sells the Hellcat with an automatic, something many GT500 Boomers had been asking for....

2015 - Hellcat!

2016 - Hellcats for $600/m lease!

2017 - mmm Hellcats!!! 717hp now

2018 - Dodge drops a 840hp Demon with a drag racing crate that hits a dozen+ industry firsts. The hype and marketing are so great that 4 years later people are still comparing it to Mid Engined Corvettes and 2020 GT500's.

2019 - Trickle Down Horse Power with Redeye Hellcats. 797hp

2020 - .... And 804hp Super Stock Challenger just to keep Dodge fresh in your mind now that Ford finally released the new Ferrari inspired Mid-Engine C8 Corvette for a Zupra smashing price of $60k and is rumored to have a DOHC Twin-Turbo version in the near Future!!!


Now if ONLY Ford would put that awesome 5.8L Supercharged 662hp V8 with a TR6060 and optional 10spd into a GT350 and boost the HP to +750 already....... I sure hope they don't do something stupid like take the 5.2 Coyote, ditch the flat plane crank and mate it to a DSG trans only and charge like $100k for it with only 760hp.

 

[kaz109]

Well, maybe you should pay attention.

1989 Nissan 300ZX 300hp Twin Turbo
1993 Toyota Supra 500whp Capable Factory Car!

2003 SVT Cobra - America's first mass produced 500whp capable factory boosted car. The car takes the internet and street racing scene by storm...

2004 - Cobraaaaahhhhh

2005 - Herpa Derpa 3vallvvzzz

2006 - Herpa Derpa Shelba GT350!!!

2007- New GT500!gave us an abortion of a bloated car with 500hp that was effectively slower than the previous Terminator. But hey, Boomers love Carol Shelby!!!

2009 rolls around and Chevy is king shit with the 580hp LSA engined CTS-V and 2012 Camaro.

2013, Ford is finally laughing with the amazing Bespoke German engineered 5.8L aluminum block and sleeved 662hp GT500! Just don't break it!

2014, Ford thinks it's a great time to retire the King.. And damn Italians drops a 707hp Hellcat Challenger....

Not only does the marketing crush the "Shelby" hype, but Dodge also promises to ensure everyone gets a Hellcat! Screw all the Ford ADM drama surrounding GT500 allocation. Who does Ford think they are... Ferrari?

Dodge also sells the Hellcat with an automatic, something many GT500 Boomers had been asking for....

2015 - Hellcat!

2016 - Hellcats for $600/m lease!

2017 - mmm Hellcats!!! 717hp now

2018 - Dodge drops a 840hp Demon with a drag racing crate that hits a dozen+ industry firsts. The hype and marketing are so great that 4 years later people are still comparing it to Mid Engined Corvettes and 2020 GT500's.

2019 - Trickle Down Horse Power with Redeye Hellcats. 797hp

2020 - .... And 804hp Super Stock Challenger just to keep Dodge fresh in your mind now that Ford finally released the new Ferrari inspired Mid-Engine C8 Corvette for a Zupra smashing price of $60k and is rumored to have a DOHC Twin-Turbo version in the near Future!!!


Now if ONLY Ford would put that awesome 5.8L Supercharged 662hp V8 with a TR6060 and optional 10spd into a GT350 and boost the HP to +750 already....... I sure hope they don't do something stupid like take the 5.2 Coyote, ditch the flat plane crank and mate it to a DSG trans only and charge like $100k for it with only 760hp.

Lol....you are jumping all over the place, try to stay on topic. In all of that you pointed out that DODGE did not show up to the party till 2015.....period. Ford is not playing catch up. The gt500 always has and is still the better car vs anything dodge makes.

Nobody is comparing it to a vette , just idiots with a YouTube channel. Ford is right were they need to be with the gt350 and gt500 which is why they are much harder to get meanwhile dodge has to run dollar per hp to try and give them away lol.

 

[Corbic]

Lol....you are jumping all over the place, try to stay on topic. In all of that you pointed out that DODGE did not show up to the party till 2015.....period. Ford is not playing catch up. The gt500 always has and is still the better car vs anything dodge makes.

Nobody is comparing it to a vette , just idiots with a YouTube channel. Ford is right were they need to be with the gt350 and gt500 which is why they are much harder to get meanwhile dodge has to run dollar per hp to try and give them away lol.

Okay, real simple.

GT500: 2 years - 2013, 2014

Hellcat: 6 years - 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020.


6 > 2


Scarcity and ADM are just factors of Supply vs Demand.

Back in January it was announced Dodge had sold 57k Hellcat powered vehicles since 2015.

Nearly 57,000 Hellcat-Powered Dodge and Jeeps Produced Equals 40,911,122 Horsepower

By contrast, Ford sold 10,600 Trinity cars and plans to only build 5k GT500s for 2020.

So essentially, Dodge is selling 2x as many cars per year. Like I said, everyone gets a Hellcat instead of a Ferrari-eque suck the dealers dick move by Ford.

A bit Ironic consider how much Ford historically hated Ferrari and that Dodge is essentially owned by Ferrari.

 

[kaz109]

Okay, real simple.

GT500: 2 years - 2013, 2014

Hellcat: 6 years - 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020.


6 > 2


Scarcity and ADM are just factors of Supply vs Demand.

Back in January it was announced Dodge had sold 57k Hellcat powered vehicles since 2015.

Nearly 57,000 Hellcat-Powered Dodge and Jeeps Produced Equals 40,911,122 Horsepower

By contrast, Ford sold 10,600 Trinity cars and plans to only build 5k GT500s for 2020.

So essentially, Dodge is selling 2x as many cars per year. Like I said, everyone gets a Hellcat instead of a Ferrari-eque suck the dealers dick move by Ford.

A bit Ironic consider how much Ford historically hated Ferrari and that Dodge is essentially owned by Ferrari.

Lol....ok dude . Its pointless with you on this topic as you continue to dance around the point that I called you out on.

You would rather have a heavier single dimension car that dodge has to give away in order to move off the lot, I wouldn't. The GT500 has been the better car ( long before dodge even got in the game) and the 2020 GT500 is still the better car.

Funny thing is I have seen more GT500s than hellcats or demons or redeyes on the road in my area which is funny considering.....well you know, dodge having to sell for 10k off msrp while Ford will have a markup on the GT500.

And I just want to make sure I am understanding your math.....so the GT500 has only been in production for 2 years while there was no challenger performance variant ? Soooooooo SRT8 doesn't count from say 2010 doesn't count?

 

[My94GT]

Thinking "out loud" about AWD in the Mustang, Hellcats, etc...
Wouldn't that take away from the heritage of what's considered an American muscle car? Front engine, rear drive, four seats even if the rears are useless... Again, just spit-balling here, but I've always believed that there's a distinct recipe that composes a muscle car. I understand the obvious benefits of AWD and a bus load of power, but isn't lighting up the rear tires through three gears part of what makes the cars what they are?

Lol....you are jumping all over the place, try to stay on topic. In all of that you pointed out that DODGE did not show up to the party till 2015.....period. Ford is not playing catch up. The gt500 always has and is still the better car vs anything dodge makes.

Nobody is comparing it to a vette , just idiots with a YouTube channel. Ford is right were they need to be with the gt350 and gt500 which is why they are much harder to get meanwhile dodge has to run dollar per hp to try and give them away lol.

I think what he’s getting at is dodge saw what ford was doing with the boosted application and was quick to respond. Ford meanwhile has had pauses between iterations of cobra and GT500’s.

the new GT500 is definitely a step about the red eye so I won’t deny that, but the older GT500s eh they weren’t leaps and bounds better.

what will be truly sad is when the market isn’t full of options like this and we can’t banter about who’s done what. We should all enjoy the power while we can be it from ford, GM, or FCA. It may soon be a distant memory.

 

[kaz109]

I think what he’s getting at is dodge saw what ford was doing with the boosted application and was quick to respond. Ford meanwhile has had pauses between iterations of cobra and GT500’s.

the new GT500 is definitely a step about the red eye so I won’t deny that, but the older GT500s eh they weren’t leaps and bounds better.

what will be truly sad is when the market isn’t full of options like this and we can’t banter about who’s done what. We should all enjoy the power while we can be it from ford, GM, or FCA. It may soon be a distant memory.

Ford has had a boosted application since 2003 so dodge coming in with one in 2015 wouldn't be " quick to respond " imo....

I mean if HP is your definition of a good car sure , enjoy what dodge is offering.

 

[Corbic]

Lol....ok dude . Its pointless with you on this topic as you continue to dance around the point that I called you out on.

Dancing around what point?

I concede, 2013-2014 Trinity Cars are amazing and Dodge only had a POS SRT8.

You would rather have a heavier

GT500's have always been on the porky side of things, just saying.

single dimension car

Just because the HC isn't a road course track special doesn't make it "single dimensional". That is just your opinion. Also, the 2020 GT500 is really the first to take road course racing seriously, the previous where just brawny Street/Strip cars.

that dodge has to give away in order to move off the lot, I wouldn't.?

I wouldn't call $58k OTD "giving away". Demons also sold for unholy ADMs and still go for 6-figures. Again, Ford under produces to artificially increase demand and Scarcity. (see Raptor)

The GT500 has been the better car ( long before dodge even got in the game)

You mean, for two years. The 2007-2010 cars are pieces of shit and once the last baby boomer croaks, the Terminator will be worth significantly more.


The 2011-2012 was overshadowed by the LSA Camaro, as previously stated. R35's blasted onto the scene... But....

and the 2020 GT500 is still the better car.

To quote you "in a single dimension". The only thing the 2020 does better is zoom around a road course. Everything else is opinion or not true.

Funny thing is I have seen more GT500s than hellcats or demons or redeyes on the road in my area which is funny considering.....?

So? What does that mean? You live in a retirement community? People can't afford cars made in the last 6 years in your town?


Anecdotic stories are meaningless when you call pull the actual sales numbers.

well you know, dodge having to sell for 10k off msrp while Ford will have a markup on the GT500.

So you'd rather over pay then get a discount?

Ford doesn't make a dime off ADMs and you have no idea if FCA is truly "losing" money on a discounted HC. If anything, Ford could losing on every GT500 they make which is why they are limiting production while FCA could be making $20k cash after discounts which is why they are pumping them out like hot cakes.

And I just want to make sure I am understanding your math.....so the GT500 has only been in production for 2 years while there was no challenger performance variant ? Soooooooo SRT8 doesn't count from say 2010 doesn't count?

Correct.

The 2005-2010 Mustang is a pile dog shit. Literally the worst Mustang ever produced, worse then the Mustang II. The early GT500's are a solid step back from the Terminator in terms of design, quality and performance.

R35 and ZL1 ate Fords lunch at this point.

Ford finally got its shit together in 2012 and gave us the Coyote, Trinity and awesome cars like the Boss 302.

YES, the 2007-2014 Challenger is a disgusting pile of crap as well. Dodge finally got its shit together, updated the cars and gave us the affordable SCAT pack and crowd pleasing Hellcat in 2015.

 

[Klaus]

Well, maybe you should pay attention.

1989 Nissan 300ZX 300hp Twin Turbo
1993 Toyota Supra 500whp Capable Factory Car!

2003 SVT Cobra - America's first mass produced 500whp capable factory boosted car. The car takes the internet and street racing scene by storm...

2004 - Cobraaaaahhhhh

2005 - Herpa Derpa 3vallvvzzz

2006 - Herpa Derpa Shelba GT350!!!

2007- New GT500!gave us an abortion of a bloated car with 500hp that was effectively slower than the previous Terminator. But hey, Boomers love Carol Shelby!!!

2009 rolls around and Chevy is king shit with the 580hp LSA engined CTS-V and 2012 Camaro.

2013, Ford is finally laughing with the amazing Bespoke German engineered 5.8L aluminum block and sleeved 662hp GT500! Just don't break it!

2014, Ford thinks it's a great time to retire the King.. And damn Italians drops a 707hp Hellcat Challenger....

Not only does the marketing crush the "Shelby" hype, but Dodge also promises to ensure everyone gets a Hellcat! Screw all the Ford ADM drama surrounding GT500 allocation. Who does Ford think they are... Ferrari?

Dodge also sells the Hellcat with an automatic, something many GT500 Boomers had been asking for....

2015 - Hellcat!

2016 - Hellcats for $600/m lease!

2017 - mmm Hellcats!!! 717hp now

2018 - Dodge drops a 840hp Demon with a drag racing crate that hits a dozen+ industry firsts. The hype and marketing are so great that 4 years later people are still comparing it to Mid Engined Corvettes and 2020 GT500's.

2019 - Trickle Down Horse Power with Redeye Hellcats. 797hp

2020 - .... And 804hp Super Stock Challenger just to keep Dodge fresh in your mind now that Ford finally released the new Ferrari inspired Mid-Engine C8 Corvette for a Zupra smashing price of $60k and is rumored to have a DOHC Twin-Turbo version in the near Future!!!


Now if ONLY Ford would put that awesome 5.8L Supercharged 662hp V8 with a TR6060 and optional 10spd into a GT350 and boost the HP to +750 already....... I sure hope they don't do something stupid like take the 5.2 Coyote, ditch the flat plane crank and mate it to a DSG trans only and charge like $100k for it with only 760hp.

You are a tad revisionist, wouldn't you say?

Here is an alternative timeline that is just as accurate:
1970-2015 - Crickets from Dodge as they surrender an entire market segment to instead focus on K cars, PT Cruisers and Sebring convertibles.

2015 - HELLCAT!!!

>2015 - Dodge skins HELLCAT!! a million different ways with myriad versions of the same tired platform. There are ever so slight differences but nothing significant. Dodge fanboys blow their wad over ever so slight differences.

??? - Dodge goes BK due to inability to innovate or adapt to market that does not include same tired platform.

 

[Booky]

.....In all of that you pointed out that DODGE did not show up to the party till 2015.....period.

Really?