2014 Mustang to have IRS

[Falc'man]

The FG is safer and (only just) lighter than the VE (G8).

The Falcon isn't much bigger, dimensionally, than the current Mustang.
This is all speculation (refer to posts where I've quoted wescoent on the previous page), the GRWD isn't announced and no one knows for sure what's going to happen. Not even Ford knows at this stage. But. From what's been speculated/said/planned/spoken about (from those I consider reliable), the next platform, IF based on FG's, will be getting a reduction in size. Hence I say "no weight gain" for Mustang, if it gets the evolved FG platform..

This is barring the info latest info, which suggests Ford's next aim is specifically weight-loss as opposed to (the usual) power gain.

 

[ChiSVT]

The FG is safer and (only just) lighter than the VE (G8).

The Falcon isn't much bigger, dimensionally, than the current Mustang.
This is all speculation (refer to posts where I've quoted wescoent on the previous page), the GRWD isn't announced and no one knows for sure what's going to happen. Not even Ford knows at this stage. But. From what's been speculated/said/planned/spoken about (from those I consider reliable), the next platform, IF based on FG's, will be getting a reduction in size. Hence I say "no weight gain" for Mustang, if it gets the evolved FG platform..

This is barring the info latest info, which suggests Ford's next aim is specifically weight-loss as opposed to (the usual) power gain.

It might be safer than the VE but we have ridiculous safety standards here. The current S197 Mustang has a 5 star crash rating but it doesn't meet the criteria for certain standards that will take effect in 2015.

2010 Ford Mustang Crash Tests - New '10 Ford Mustang Safety Ratings at InternetAutoGuide.com

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfile.../Associated%20Files/Roof_Crush_Final_Rule.pdf

I hope you're right though, I'd love to see Ford try to keep the weight down. It makes sense with upcoming CAFE standards. I don't think our N/A modular motors would be particularly efficient in a 3900lb car.

 

[Falc'man]

The reason I mentioned VE is because it (VE/Zeta) also met your standards. Of course, over time the bar is moved a little further up, but I do not foresee any problems with respects to this. In 2015 the Mustang, whatever it morphs into, should be good enough.

We will know for certain if Mustang *may* be re-birthed from it's origin (the Falcon) in about 10 months time. This is when FordAu say they will announce a decision on Falcon's future. "One Ford" means Falcon will no longer be unique as it is now, and that it will be part (or basis) of a global RWD, or killed altogether and replaced with a Taurus..

If it's the latter, Falcon will still be around until 2015.

If it's the former then they would then have about 3-4 years to develop this platform.

 

[Formula51]

From what's been speculated/said/planned/spoken about (from those I consider reliable), the next platform, IF based on FG's, will be getting a reduction in size. Hence I say "no weight gain" for Mustang, if it gets the evolved FG platform..

It would be intersting to see the Mustang go smaller than it currently is. I think it is a good size for a 2+2 coupe and really shouldn't shrink much. Except for the rear ovehang, that could use some shrinking but is difficult to do with crash test standards.

Come to think of it, yeah, shortening the rear overhang would be a real nice change on the Mustang in the future. And while they are at it, they can learn how to paint the rear valence:rolling:

 

[fivepointno]

only if your stupid.. the IRS is one of the major reasons why the Terminator is popular.. for me, I'd never have bought one without IRS..

Really? the reason I bought my 98 cobra over a 99 was mainly because I don't like how the IRS launches and it didn't feel like it handled any better when I was test driving cars.

If they switch to IRS I am NOT buying one I'll get the last year of the solid axle car.....

 

[fivepointno]

Here you go....

Maximum Motorsports shows off IRS suspension for Mustang — Autoblog


Never figured out why MM never did anything with IRS AND SLA they designed for the S197. Oh, I know....no one wants an IRS in the S197. Hell, if they weren't going to build 'em they should have sold the plans for others to build.

IRS in my New Edge rocks...even without the firmer bushings (I'd go with Bruce's bushing kit in a heart-beat if I didn't have to daily drive her). Stays planted on the roughest backroads...no problem. The IRS argument has been going on for years...and makes me laugh. I'd like to see Ford get it right next time. Maybe by then they'll have an SRA swap option. Hey, that would be nice....for all the nay-sayers.

so with the stiff bushings by the time you get the setup it probably rides rougher than a SRA. so whats the point?

 

[fivepointno]

Its also a gives you a large reduction in unsprung weight, plus it gives you a MUCH flatter cornering, more composed car. I don't care that you can make a SRA handle well because yes you can just like you can make a IRS car launch well. Try running anywhere near as stiff a spring rate(even half the spring rate) on a SRA that you do on a IRS.

If weight is that big of a concern to you then you should buy something other than a Mustang, because they are not exactly light cars anymore.

I think it would make sense to offer the GT500 and GT with either. Really the only way to go with this, the SRA vs. IRS camps are like Mustang and Camaro guys. I'm drop dead serious, I would not buy a mustang with IRS just like I wouldn't buy a Camaro....

 

[fivepointno]

Somebody had better let F1 and the LeMans racers know that they've been developing the wrong type of rear suspension for the last 40yrs.

Engineers are stupid anyway. Might as well go back to front and rear solid axles. It's just as good.

They actually used solid rear axles in F1 up until the mid 70s I believe. worked quite well.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I like the sound of the Euro Snob option. The Mustang is due for a shrinkage, just look at its history: 1964 - small. 1971 - big. 1974 - small. 2005 - big. 2014 - small? It's like the last 10 years of Kirstie Alley.

LOL!

We should do a poll of the age of people who like IRS. My bet would be 40+ for it and under 40 against!

I suggest you start a poll and a new thread, but just out of curiosity what exactly would either outcome eventually prove either way? People over 40 are retarded? What's your point? Do you think people stop accumulating knowledge and skills via life experiences?

"Age and guile beat youth, innocence and a bad hair cut" ..... P. J. O'Rourke

The FG is safer and (only just) lighter than the VE (G8).

The Falcon isn't much bigger, dimensionally, than the current Mustang.
This is all speculation (refer to posts where I've quoted wescoent on the previous page), the GRWD isn't announced and no one knows for sure what's going to happen. Not even Ford knows at this stage. But. From what's been speculated/said/planned/spoken about (from those I consider reliable), the next platform, IF based on FG's, will be getting a reduction in size. Hence I say "no weight gain" for Mustang, if it gets the evolved FG platform..

This is barring the info latest info, which suggests Ford's next aim is specifically weight-loss as opposed to (the usual) power gain.

I expect the selection and usage of lighter higher strength BORON Steels will fulfill the weight loss predictions.

They actually used solid rear axles in F1 up until the mid 70s I believe. worked quite well.

You have got to be ****ing kidding me! Put the freaking beer down and do a little reading. seriously are you freaking drunk or what?

Most of the comments from the SRA advocates are down right comical.

"I wont buy a Mustang if it has an IRS"..
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Guess you may be driving used cars for a while then and trucks.

I'm dieing to see some track times from both V6 and V6 2011 ..... with turns! It's going to be an outstanding pair.. even with an SRA! LOL!

The SRA/drag racing "swingers" seem to have such a single minded monolithic outlook pertaining to the performance possibilities of an IRS, that I find it simply Amazing.

...

 

[CobraRed01]

+1...Jimmy!!!

 

[Formula51]

An IRS doesn't have to weigh that much...Yes it was poorly designed and weighed too much in our 03-04 Cobras, but it doesn't have to going forward. Cars like the 350/370Z and Corvette have very light independent setups.

Depending on the platform used I could see Ford keeping the weight down regardless of an IRS.

I do agree about safety standards though, I think that will be Ford's biggest obstacle in keeping the weight down.

Not sure the weight of the Corvettes rear suspension versus a live axle, but it is a bit of a design anomaly that has evolved over the years. It is rather unique and I "assume" relatively expensive or we would see it used more often.

The IRS in Zeta (which was designed for it from the ground up) is heavier than the 03/04 Cobra IRS. Part of this is may be size, robustness, etc., but I'm just not seeing these "lightweight" IRS in Mustang/Camaro sized V8 cars.

As for the 350/370Z, those suspensions do not have to handle 390+ ft.lbs. of torque! Not to mention those "small" 2-seaters still weight north of 3,400lbs. with their V6. I don't consider them light at all.

Damn, all this talk about weight, maybe its finally time to pony up the dough for that new hood and drop 30#'s upfront.....got to finish my Acura RSX Type-S seat install first...mmmm....manual controls and perforated leather.

 

[ChiSVT]

Not sure the weight of the Corvettes rear suspension versus a live axle, but it is a bit of a design anomaly that has evolved over the years. It is rather unique and I "assume" relatively expensive or we would see it used more often.

The IRS in Zeta (which was designed for it from the ground up) is heavier than the 03/04 Cobra IRS. Part of this is may be size, robustness, etc., but I'm just not seeing these "lightweight" IRS in Mustang/Camaro sized V8 cars.

As for the 350/370Z, those suspensions do not have to handle 390+ ft.lbs. of torque! Not to mention those "small" 2-seaters still weight north of 3,400lbs. with their V6. I don't consider them light at all.

Damn, all this talk about weight, maybe its finally time to pony up the dough for that new hood and drop 30#'s upfront.....got to finish my Acura RSX Type-S seat install first...mmmm....manual controls and perforated leather.

It's kind of hard to compare the weight out of the Camaro's IRS since the platform is shared with full sized sedans, I'd definitely say size and robustness play a huge role. :-D

Holden VE

The new 370Zs weigh just over 3200lbs...It's entirely possible to be light and designed to handle plenty of torque IMO; if it can be done on a Vette and 370Z I don't see a reason why it can't be done on a pony car. A lot of those 370Zs see well over 600ft/lbs of torque with a turbo kit.

Cars like the E46 M3 weigh 3400lbs with an IRS too. They're about as big as a Ford Mustang. Hell Toyota did in 1993 with the 3400lb Supra, (about the same size as a Mustang as well) and that IRS is damn near indestructible.

I was discussing this in another thread, I don't think they have a choice. It will be very difficult to meet upcoming fuel requirements in a 3600-3900lb car. We just might see lightweight pony cars built on sub compact platforms.

New fuel-efficiency rules require 35.5 mpg average by 2016 - USATODAY.com

 

[GTSpartan]

They actually used solid rear axles in F1 up until the mid 70s I believe. worked quite well.

That was 35 years ago!

 

[fivepointno]

LOL!



I suggest you start a poll and a new thread, but just out of curiosity what exactly would either outcome eventually prove either way? People over 40 are retarded? What's your point? Do you think people stop accumulating knowledge and skills via life experiences?

"Age and guile beat youth, innocence and a bad hair cut" ..... P. J. O'Rourke



I expect the selection and usage of lighter higher strength BORON Steels will fulfill the weight loss predictions.



You have got to be ****ing kidding me! Put the freaking beer down and do a little reading. seriously are you freaking drunk or what?

Most of the comments from the SRA advocates are down right comical.

"I wont buy a Mustang if it has an IRS"..
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Guess you may be driving used cars for a while then and trucks.

I'm dieing to see some track times from both V6 and V6 2011 ..... with turns! It's going to be an outstanding pair.. even with an SRA! LOL!

The SRA/drag racing "swingers" seem to have such a single minded monolithic outlook pertaining to the performance possibilities of an IRS, that I find it simply Amazing.

...

So your camp says they wont buy a mustang with a SRA. Whats the difference, I don't want the thing. I realize that IRS has it's merits. However the SRA's ride does not bother me, the handling is as good as IRS depending on setup, at a dragstrip the SRA is much better and on a real roadcourse it's a wash. All with the proven reliability of the SRA and ease of modification and maitenance.

Like I said Ford should offer both. otherwise I have no problem getting a nice 2013 GT500 if they don't, I have a feeling after they switch platforms it's all downhill for the mustang anyways, more weight, probably less power or ecoboost v6's to deal with CAFE stds.

I bet you think solid axles don't belong in trucks either....

 

[fivepointno]

That was 35 years ago!

well I don't think anyone is going to say they handled badly lol!

 

[CobraRed01]

so with the stiff bushings by the time you get the setup it probably rides rougher than a SRA. so whats the point?

Stiffer bushing won't necessarily make the Mustang IRS rougher than an SRA. Stiffer bushings are to correct the inherent problem of too many bushings in the Mustang IRS...namely the additional IRS subframe bushings. Frankly, any Mustang will handle better and ride a bit rougher with stiffer bushings. The advantage of the IRS over the SRA is handling performance (accurate tracking and confidence in power application) on rougher "real world" roads. Stiffer bushings really help in this respect. If you like to boogie the backroad twisties with confidence the IRS is your weapon of choice. Hey, the S197 SRA is pretty damn good (especially considering the lesser tendancy to wheelhop for the drag racers out there)...but a properly setup IRS would be better all around.

We shall see....but my guess is with Mustang becoming an international platform down the pike...the Euro's are going to want an IRS. If there is an upward spike in Mustang production volume due to the international demand, and the next platform is properly designed, maybe you'll be able to get either an IRS or SRA option at some point. Interesting Ford developments to consider Australian V8 Supercars like the Ford Falcon and American Mustang Grand Am road racers run stick axles, but Ford just developed a rear transaxle and IRS (a'la Corvette) for the new 2011 Mustang in FIA GT3 class. First run for the later is at Silverstone in UK this weekend. Ford GT runs in this class as well. Good time to bleed Blue.


RE IRS in F1....it was used regularly by Ferrari as far back as the 1950's.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ferrari-f1.htm/printable

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

As for the 350/370Z, those suspensions do not have to handle 390+ ft.lbs. of torque!

yet they still do:rollseyes

 

[speedofsound]

so with the stiff bushings by the time you get the setup it probably rides rougher than a SRA.

:lol: Come on ...seriously.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

:lol: Come on ...seriously.

Exactly!!:rockon:

In fact the opposite is true, due to the articulation having less drag from clamping rubber bushings into position and having them flex in rotation with every cycle, the Delrin modded IRS will usually ride better unless a spring change was made at the same time to a stiffer spring. Literally the only down side is a very slight increase in NVH, that is primarily a slight increase in a white noise kind of gear sound, more noticeable on 4.10 and higher numerical gear, and less noticeable on 3.73s and down.

Why do people who don't know anything about what an IRS is like, modded or not, run the mouth like they are an expert?:shrug:

Just to prove to the world that they are ill informed?
I would be embarrassed, if I don't have a clue about something, I ask questions or STFU!!

 

[speedofsound]

Why do people who don't know anything about what an IRS is like, modded or not, run the mouth like they are an expert?:shrug:

+1. And since you continued on the subject ...I'll add my personal experience with the upgrades. After dropping the IRS, I tried moving the A-arm by lifting at the hub ...I practically lifted the entire side of the IRS off of the ground. After the bushing upgrades, the A-arm articulation was like silk. I guess that means stiffer? :shrug: :bored: