2013 8.8 rear end and dealer issues

DD2013 5.0

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I have a 2013 5.0 m6 that's is my daily. I have a few mods but nothing extreme. I am having a lot of clunking and whine from the rear end. Took it to ford and there trying to deny coverage because I have aftermarket suspension parts (springs, shocks/struts, phb, and lower control arms). They are saying the rear end needs re built? But don't know if they can cover it because of the chafes I've made. The only things they have done is drive the car around and put the car on a lift then look around. That's when they notice my suspensions changes. They just replaced the pinion seal 2 weeks ago with no issues. The noises have gotten a lot worse since they did the seal
I'm pretty sure my mods have no effect on the internals of the rear end but the dealer seems to think other wise. They are e mailing ford engineering to see if what I have done to the car would cause the failure
The tech that looked at my car was not pleasant to deal with and acted like he didn't want any part of working on my car
What are people's experiences with this? Anyone have a similar issue? Seems to me like the tech made a big deal about my mods so that he didn't have to tear the rear end apart? Just my guess? Lol
Any info would be great!!
The car went in on the stock tune and no motor mods if that has any relevance?
 

DD2013 5.0

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I have a 2013 5.0 m6 that's is my daily. I have a few mods but nothing extreme. I am having a lot of clunking and whine from the rear end. Took it to ford and there trying to deny coverage because I have aftermarket suspension parts (springs, shocks/struts, phb, and lower control arms). They are saying the rear end needs re built? But don't know if they can cover it because of the chafes I've made. The only things they have done is drive the car around and put the car on a lift then look around. That's when they notice my suspensions changes. They just replaced the pinion seal 2 weeks ago with no issues. The noises have gotten a lot worse since they did the seal
I'm pretty sure my mods have no effect on the internals of the rear end but the dealer seems to think other wise. They are e mailing ford engineering to see if what I have done to the car would cause the failure
The tech that looked at my car was not pleasant to deal with and acted like he didn't want any part of working on my car
What are people's experiences with this? Anyone have a similar issue? Seems to me like the tech made a big deal about my mods so that he didn't have to tear the rear end apart? Just my guess? Lol
Any info would be great!!
The car went in on the stock tune and no motor mods if that has any relevance?

Changes not chafes. Lol
 

kingnut

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Im pretty low. Stock UCA and drive shaft have alot of give. The clunking sounds like the infamous DS clunk. Sucks to hear they dont want to help you.
 

nosympathy

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Delete, I know who the OP is, and not surprised he blew out his pinion seal/possibly more damage.
 
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wikdlx

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technically not doing a UCA and fixing your pinion angle can cause damage to the internals of the diff.

your 1.5" drop is a little hard on the internals.

Depends on how you drive it and how long it's been that way.

Also, I doubt the guys at Ford are saying that, but if they got someone who knew something about the suspension for these cars, they very well can slam you for that.

:beer:

as stated, you can just try another dealer.


lowering your car is hard on differential internals? Please explain

Pinion angle damaging internals?

help me understand

thanks
 

nosympathy

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lowering your car is hard on differential internals? Please explain

Pinion angle damaging internals?

help me understand

thanks

the axle twists backwards and the driveshaft pulls down and towards the front of the car on the pinion bearing/seal when lowered. Not to count when you go WOT and it climbs the gears it gets even worse twisting back even more.
 

Clipboard

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the axle twists backwards and the driveshaft pulls down and towards the front of the car on the pinion bearing/seal when lowered. Not to count when you go WOT and it climbs the gears it gets even worse twisting back even more.

i can understand this effecting the pinion seal...not everything else
 

MKMotorsport

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the axle twists backwards and the driveshaft pulls down and towards the front of the car on the pinion bearing/seal when lowered. Not to count when you go WOT and it climbs the gears it gets even worse twisting back even more.


This. I've recorded the rear pinion angle driveline changes of my Thunderbird (that car has a National Drivetrain built 8.8) while canyon carving and aggressively downshifting/upshifting, this car has the motorsport "C" springs, 3" lower than stock. The combined loads of that with bumps, braking loading and unloading, made me think something was broke when I first watched the video of my car. The overall range of pinion angle deflection was really shocking to see. The pinion, its bearings, and seals are under tremendous load, anything that changes the working angles, swings, and suspension arcs could negatively effect the rear's life- especially if it was setup marginal to begin with (not likely though on OEM setup).
 
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nosympathy

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i can understand this effecting the pinion seal...not everything else

Why not? Read below. He has it right on. You are putting a lot more force at non normal angle on the pinion bearing. Why wouldn't this affect it?

This. I've recorded the rear pinion angle driveline changes of my Thunderbird (that car has a National Drivetrain built 8.8) while canyon carving and aggressively downshifting/upshifting, this car has the motorsport "C" springs, 3" lower than stock. The combined loads of that with bumps, braking loading and unloading, made me think something was broke when I first watched the video of my car. The overall range of pinion angle deflection was really shocking to see. The pinion, its bearings, and seals are under tremendous load, anything that changes the working angles, swings, and suspension arcs could negatively effect the rear's life- especially if it was setup marginal to begin with (not likely though on OEM setup).

agreed. I meant to measure my stock setup when I dropped 2.4" for pinion angle but never did. Based on how it looked I would have guessed it around a +6 to +8. (100% guess based on how I remember it looking and how -6 looked when I was setting my pinion angle the last time, and it started right at about -6. So looking at that angle being in reverse.)

When we set pinion angles on these car we usually set them at -1 to -3 depending. That way during acceleration and then of course gear climb they go closer to a 0 pinion angle. If you have a +6 pinion angle for example, it would very well be changing to +8 while under WOT.

Also seems not all cars act the same. When I first set the pinion angle to -2 on my UCA the car loved it and drove vibration free. Then after having Beefcakes buddies at Finish Line resetup the rear end and now the ds vibrates at a -2 but not at a -2.3 which is where it is set now. Seems like nothing, but that .3 was all I needed to 100% stop the vibrations.
 
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wikdlx

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I can see where it would stress the pinion bearing and u-joint. Ive actually seen pinion angle break the rear u-joint.
thanks
 

twistid

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What is the proper way to set an adjustable UCA on a lowered 5.0? Measure the angle before and after drop and try to maintain that angle? Do they sell non-adjustable UCA that is pre-set for a set amount of drop... for example, "This UCA is ideal for 2" of drop" ... ?
 

slagburn

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Ride height and/ or pinion angle isn't going to cause pinion seal failure or any other diff issues. Pinion seals leak on these cars at times- my 12 was leaking right off the truck and they don't always set up the gears correctly at the factory.
 

Chuck@Evolution

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When they replaced the pinion seal was the rear disassembled. To do the seal properly the ring and pinion need to be removed and the crush collar on the pinion needs to be replaced as well. If it wasnt then the preload on the pinion will not be right
 

DD2013 5.0

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Nosympathy: I've got nothing! Lol the proof is in the pudding!;)
Any ways I'm trying to get solid info as to if being lowered with the said parts can cause rear end internal damage? The rear is 1.5in lower than stock. I've know this to put strain on the cv and u joints on the ds but not effect the internals. But if a pinion seal is being effected and is starting to leak because of the "off" pinion angle then yes the pinion shaft is moving. If the pinion is moving then the mesh of the ring and pinion jacked up. Which can cause uneven ware and excessive back lash? With this being said ford did replace the pinion seal under warranty a few weeks back. I know if the pinion nut isn't tightened correctly the bearing pre load will be effected. My sheet from ford says the only parts used were a new pinion seal and 2 qrts of gear oil. No additive, pinion nut, or crush sleeve?
Has anyone had there rear ends worked on under warrenty with suspension mods?
A 1 pcs ds, adj upper ca and mount are going in Thursday
 

me32

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Would take the car back to tge dealer as it looks like the tech fix the seal an did not follow work shop manual on rechecking pre load
 

slagburn

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Different angles aren't going to be hard on the seal. It's just that, a seal, it knows nothing of what angle it's at. For the seal to work the pinion must run true with no play.

The crush sleeve does not need to be replaced if proper procedure is followed. Overtighten the pinion nut and crush the sleeve further: bearing failure (and leaks). Undertighten the nut and it will back off resulting in leaks.

Driveline vibrations from incorrect pinion angle can also damage the seal but it takes a heavy vibration for a while to do that.
 

DD2013 5.0

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When they replaced the pinion seal was the rear disassembled. To do the seal properly the ring and pinion need to be removed and the crush collar on the pinion needs to be replaced as well. If it wasnt then the preload on the pinion will not be right

I can tell you the rear end was NOT taken apart. I made sure they (the dealer) knew the car was driven with the seal leaking.
They dropped the rear of the ds, pulled the nut, changed the seal, re installed the original nut, topped off the lube (gear oil only and no additive), then the ds re installed. Test drive ok. I'd post a pic of the paper but cannot attach pics yet
 

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