2001 Cobra Spun rod bearings at 57k? Oil starvation? Motor Replacement advice?

[FMD]

Hi all, Ill try to make this as quick as possible.

Just reecently ran my 01 down my local strip, only to halfway down notice a weird noise and immedietly slowed down. Took it very easy the few minutes it took to get to my house, and than got to work. Took down the oil pan, and found the bearings shot. The rod journals all look ok.. except for one. It has the literal slightest scoring ive ever seen, but its there. Im more curious about why though.. Its a two owner car (me being the second) and Ive had the car for about 15k miles. I baby the car 95% of the time, and rarely drive it like an animal. My tune has been from Bama, and its been a literal nightmare with their atrocious tunes ****ing my car up back and forth for months. When I took it to a dyno a month prior to this, the guy had to stop due to a "pinging" noise, which im assuming was foreshadowing on this issue.

So now my question.. How could this have happened? It had about 6.5-7qts of oil, synthetic, and wasnt due for a change any time soon. Engine ran cool the entire time. Did not miss a shift, or over rev (highest I revved was 6500) Checked the spark plugs for damage on the diodes to see if there was possible piston damage, and nothing. The rest of the crank, rods, pistons, the actual block itself etc. looks literally immaculate. This car is literally like my baby. So I cleaned up the journals a bit and am going to be throwing bearings in again just for now, and build a motor on the side. In the mean time, and just so I can actually fix the problem instead of patch it... anybody have any guesses?

Lastly, for my motor build.. Im planning on getting around 600-700rwhp, twin roots sc, mostly the best possible internals put into it etc. Whats the best block to throw money at, Romeo or Teksid? I really want the teksid because the aluminum is lighter, disipiates heat better, and is overall more of a unique build and more true to the 99-01 cobras instead of a 03/04 wannabe. The arguement ive heard though is the alum block wouldnt be able to hold boost well at all compared to the iron... So I need some sound, proven ideas/advice on what block to go nuts on. Ive already found a good few chances for buying a teksid block as well so id like to start soon, thank you all for any advice/comments/tips you have!

-Frank

 

[FMD]

Bump

 

[Stevenb913]

damn that sucks, my buddies 01 cobra had similar issues at 120k miles though

 

[GM Nitemare]

Teksid blocks can easily hold that power level. Mine is at just under 800RWHP with lot's of room left.

 

[FMD]

Steve, i know it blows. Did you and your friend ever find out what caused it or did you just patch and go?

 

[VirtualSVT]

Low oil. Sucks. 7 quarts is your friend.

 

[FMD]

GM, any hardcore mods done to the block or anything? Internals you used? Is it sleeved? Because i was building a list of possible engine interlas on mmr.. Came out to around 6-6500. Thats without the c heads or the block itself lol so i was wondering if i was doing to much overkill.

 

[SID297]

Some have noted that it's an oil return problem (at high RPM) where oil pools in the heads and doesn't make it back into the sump soon enough. This leads to the oil starvation of the main and rod bearings. I've taken apart and helped rebuild one (01 Cobra) that suffered the exact same fate.

 

[BlueSnake01]

Some have noted that it's an oil return problem (at high RPM) where oil pools in the heads and doesn't make it back into the sump soon enough. This leads to the oil starvation of the main and rod bearings. I've taken apart and helped rebuild one (01 Cobra) that suffered the exact same fate.

This is what they told me as well. Same crap happened to me around the same mileage. Funny thing im also the 2nd owner and bought the car when it had around 38k miles, oil was also recently changed about 1,500 miles prior to my engine becoming poop.

No patch or nothing done with me, just replaced the engine to a Terminator one.

 

[BLOWN9646]

Hi all, Ill try to make this as quick as possible.

Just reecently ran my 01 down my local strip, only to halfway down notice a weird noise and immedietly slowed down. Took it very easy the few minutes it took to get to my house, and than got to work. Took down the oil pan, and found the bearings shot. The rod journals all look ok.. except for one. It has the literal slightest scoring ive ever seen, but its there. Im more curious about why though.. Its a two owner car (me being the second) and Ive had the car for about 15k miles. I baby the car 95% of the time, and rarely drive it like an animal. My tune has been from Bama, and its been a literal nightmare with their atrocious tunes ****ing my car up back and forth for months. When I took it to a dyno a month prior to this, the guy had to stop due to a "pinging" noise, which im assuming was foreshadowing on this issue.

So now my question.. How could this have happened? It had about 6.5-7qts of oil, synthetic, and wasnt due for a change any time soon. Engine ran cool the entire time. Did not miss a shift, or over rev (highest I revved was 6500) Checked the spark plugs for damage on the diodes to see if there was possible piston damage, and nothing. The rest of the crank, rods, pistons, the actual block itself etc. looks literally immaculate. This car is literally like my baby. So I cleaned up the journals a bit and am going to be throwing bearings in again just for now, and build a motor on the side. In the mean time, and just so I can actually fix the problem instead of patch it... anybody have any guesses?

Lastly, for my motor build.. Im planning on getting around 600-700rwhp, twin roots sc, mostly the best possible internals put into it etc. Whats the best block to throw money at, Romeo or Teksid? I really want the teksid because the aluminum is lighter, disipiates heat better, and is overall more of a unique build and more true to the 99-01 cobras instead of a 03/04 wannabe. The arguement ive heard though is the alum block wouldnt be able to hold boost well at all compared to the iron... So I need some sound, proven ideas/advice on what block to go nuts on. Ive already found a good few chances for buying a teksid block as well so id like to start soon, thank you all for any advice/comments/tips you have!

-Frank

This sounds like it may have shorten the longevity of the engine also. Did you ever get it tuned on the dyno?

 

[oldmodman]

When I got my Cobra in 2002 I was worried about the oil starvation problem too. And i had a few choices. Since I was planning on keeping the stock engine stock, while planning the "bulletproof" new engine build I really studied oiling problems and fixes.

My simple and relatively easy fix for the completely stock engine was to run an Accusump as a bandaid fix for the problem.
It will "take over" when a low oil pressure or volume event occurs and supply oil to the engine for a few seconds while the oil system recovers and covers the oil pick up again. Plus it can be set up as a pre oiler for the engine to prevent wear on cold starts. Or as a turbo oiler after shut down (if you happen to have a turbo).

But for the next engine I will be getting a deep sump pan with a deep pick-up, doors to keep the oil at the pick up, oil drain back tubes (from Livernois) to make the oil drain back from the heads faster, and a Melling High Volume Oil Pump as a helper.

I have actually considered, and priced out, a three stage external oil pump and scavenge system including an engine vacuum system. It was going to cost more than the entire engine, so that wasn't going to happen. Even if it was the coolest looking thing you can imagine.

But as to your problem. Did you carefully inspect the oil pan and cut open the filter to look for metal garbage? If you did and didn't find any you are most likely going to get many, many miles out of your engine after you replace just the one scored bearing. It is absolutely possible that a piece of "crap" that had been hiding in the oil passages since the engine was built just suddenly came loose and made it's way to that one rod bearing and caused the damage. That is something that I HAVE seen before. We could not explain it, it just happened.

 

[vettez062002]

pm sent

 

[03cobra#694]

OP, there's a whole section dedicated to these year cars where you might get more answers.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?51-New-Edge-Cobras

 

[GM Nitemare]

GM, any hardcore mods done to the block or anything? Internals you used? Is it sleeved? Because i was building a list of possible engine interlas on mmr.. Came out to around 6-6500. Thats without the c heads or the block itself lol so i was wondering if i was doing to much overkill.

Not really. Not sleeved, has factory cobra crank, billet rods, ARP everything, Manly pistons. Block is strong, and was only $200.00.

 

[CobraRed01]

I've always wondered if in these motors there isn't some kind of trade off between running heavier oil like 5W30 or even 10W30 that everyone claims you should do and some bearing issues we see. Could it be that the 5W20 actually flows better out of the heads at higher revs? Heavier oil is useless if it is not making it to the crank. Sure, at higher temps on the track the heavier grade may be warranted...but for only occasional hard use at high rpm runs may be 20 weight is better.

Also, how many New Edgers lug their motors around town trying get better mileage? This could have an impact on bearing life. The more you keep the revs up (at moderate levels) the better the oil flow and relatively less pulse pressure on the lower bearings. These motors are not designed to be lugged around.

I don't have any hard data on this. Just makes me wonder.

 

[01yellercobra]

Did you check the oil pump? Are you running underdrive pullies? If so, what brand?

The Teksid will be fine for your build. A WAP would probably work just as well. Are you looking into a stroker or keeping the stock displacement?

 

[FMD]

Sid, is there a fix for it at all? I heard that once or twice but never found and clear proof on it. Would swapping to C heads negate that issue at all? Thats what I was going to use instead of the B's for this build.

Blue, are you my clone or something? haha

Blown, yeah thats what I was thinking. I dont think it had much to do with it, but I definantly think it contributed, of course with no hard proof either. The second the car is actually running again im taking that junk off of my ECU, they used to be so good with their canned tunes... Idk what the hell happened but even the guy who they based their 01 cobra tune off of couldnt fix it after over 7+ attempts. I will never use a can tune again.

Oldmod, No I didnt thats a good idea actually. There was metal flakes at the bottom though from a few of the bearings that werent in great shape. Ive seen much, MUCH worse bearings before (completely disintigrated, split in half etc.) but they still werent new looking. It ended up being 5-6 of the bearings werent in good shape. I might have to steal your idea with the oiling system..

03cobra, sorry about that bud I posted this late as hell last night, wasnt really looking for a specific forum after not being able to find my answers anywhere because I was tired beyond belief haha.

GM, thats really good to know.. I was worried once I started pricing out the internals, came out to over 6 grand, not even including the block or C heads I want, or any of the supporting mods or supercharger haha. So I figured I might have been overkilling it to much, im glad to see your confirming that. I actually have a guy im talking to now with a teksid and stock forged crank, he wants 9 for it though.. im trying to get him down to around 6-7, is that a good deal?

Cobrared, thats a really good theory honestly.. I mean im not trying to get better mpg (with the shitty ass bama tune I was only getting 13 anyways, babying it) because its more about the smiles per miles for me. I got a crappy subaru for regular driving haha. But im curious if that could be it.. I was always taught to not have the car way up in the rpm band for no-nothing driving, just stick it in a cruising gear and go along you know? Ill get on it around corners and stuff but that was about the extent most days.

slo, I didnt check the pump actually since the motor is still in the car.. this is all taking place in my driveway unfortunetly with no hoist or anything. No ud pullies either. I was most likely going to keep stock displacement.. but who knows. Id need to do a lot more research on that kind of build to have an idea, im at least somewhat familiar with the stock engine the way it is now. Did you have some ideas? And I figured the WAP would be fine, but I also dont want to bring it to its breaking point and stay there. Its like the GT people who turbo and then get it to 450hp.. its a ticking time bomb since they are at their limit, i dont want to do the same you know?

 

[01yellercobra]

I would check the pump. You can get to it with the engine in the car. Something caused the bearings to be wiped out.

If you're going to keep the stock displacement then you can go easy on the budget. Get the block and crank that you're looking at and then get upgraded rods and pistons. I would use ARP bolts. If you can assemble engines you'll save even more.

 

[FMD]

That was my exact thoughts slo. I did want to find out what caused it..

And yeah I mean, my theory is a bullet proof motor that pushing 6-7rwhp will be like childs play to, so I dont have to worry about anything breaking unless its due to my fault (which i hope doesnt happen haha). I ended up being able to get the guy to 650, and im going to actually check it out tommorow to make sure he wasnt bullshiting me. 90k on a block is no big deal because.. well its a block. What about the crank though? I was going to have everything machined and honed anyways. The plan was to use arp bolts in everything due to their raving reviews on being the best. I was going to give the build a shot by myself as well, since it wouldnt be my car if I didnt do the work, but on that note I havent built a modular motor before so it will be.. interesting.

So I was going to stick with the stock crank since its forged anyway, the hurricane oil pump MMR produces, some type of rod/piston combo from MMR as well (unless you have a different recommendation which might be cheaper/better than theirs) a few other small upgraded things. I definantly want cobra C heads, that ill have ported and polished as well. In terms of valves, springs, etc... what should I go about getting? Stock stuff or something similar? My plan down the line was to slap one of those 2.8l liquid cooled mammoth kenne bells meant for the 03/04 termis on there if I can ever afford it, so the idea was to find some type of used eaton and upper intake from a 03/04 just to have it with boost in the system to compliment the appropriate cams and the like, unless somebody has another recommendation. Lastly, is there any mod motor specific tools I need besides the basic harmonic balancer, valve spring compressor etc? Thanks in advance everyone, the more advice the better.

 

[01yellercobra]

The best way to check a crank is with a micrometer. But as long as there aren't any deep gouges or scratches you should be ok. You'll want to have the block bored .020" over anyway. Make sure it hasn't been bored previously. I built the engine in my car. It's not black magic. It's just an engine. There are some different torque sequences, but it's not hard to figure out. Just take your time and double check clearances. And keep everything clean.

Check around for rods. You might be able to find some used Manley's for sale. I've heard Modmax has some good deals. I'm running a Melling oil pump. I prefer to run billet gears. Even if it's billet gears in a stock housing. You can hit 700rwhp with stock heads and cams. Getting the heads ported just makes it easier to get there. All I can recommend is what I'm personally running. I have 03 heads with Comp springs. I'm running Ford GT cams, but you should be fine with your stock cams. In order to run the 2.8 you're going to have to look into an eaton swap. And there's a lot more parts involved then just eaton and intake.

I didn't use any special tools when I assembled my engine. And that was 20k miles ago. It's still doing good.