2.9l whipple install. questions

[brandonflood123]

so i read the how to on this, and it seems like it wont be too difficult at all to install. first question is, i have a set of long tube headers im going to be installing at the same time. is it recomended that i install the long tubes before trying to put the whipple on? or it wont really matter, as long as i just leave the egr tube off between the swaps? another question i have is what kind of rtv are you guys using to seal the supercharger down with? and how long to you let it sit for. will i need a new belt running a stock lower, and a 3" upper? do i need an auxillary idler pully? on the long tubes. can i reuse the stock bolts or do i need to buy some aftermarket ones, if so what brand?thats all the questions i have for now. all responses are apprciated. thanks!

 

[Ninjak]

I will answer what I can.

IMO I believe you should do the headers first. If you need to tilt the engine, I have read where it is VERY difficult to YOU CANNOT tilt the engine with a Whipple in place. It will not clear. How true this I do not know, but why risk it ?

I would say on the idler it depends on belt slip. I run one on my TVS with a 2.4 pulley.

Not sure if you need new bolts, but I would say ARP bolts ?

The rest I will let some more inform people speak on as I never have done the whipple swap. I am sure a few other will chime in.

 

[19COBRA93]

Definitely do the headers first. The engine will not tilt with the blower on. You can use grey or black RTV, and the stock belt will work. It'll be a hair loose, so an aux idler would be a great addition (but really not absolutely needed). The stock manifolds use studs and nuts. because of the tube diameter/shape of the longtubes, you can't use the studs in all locations. Some of them will work fine, the others will need bolts. On my ARH's I'm using all 16 bolts that came with the headers. Install the EGR tube last.

 

[brandonflood123]

I will answer what I can.

IMO I believe you should do the headers first. If you need to tilt the engine, I have read where it is VERY difficult to YOU CANNOT tilt the engine with a Whipple in place. It will not clear. How true this I do not know, but why risk it ?

I would say on the idler it depends on belt slip. I run one on my TVS with a 2.4 pulley.

Not sure if you need new bolts, but I would say ARP bolts ?

The rest I will let some more inform people speak on as I never have done the whipple swap. I am sure a few other will chime in.

thank you for your input. i will put the longtubes on first.

Definitely do the headers first. The engine will not tilt with the blower on. You can use grey or black RTV, and the stock belt will work. It'll be a hair loose, so an aux idler would be a great addition (but really not absolutely needed). The stock manifolds use studs and nuts. because of the tube diameter/shape of the longtubes, you can't use the studs in all locations. Some of them will work fine, the others will need bolts. On my ARH's I'm using all 16 bolts that came with the headers. Install the EGR tube last.

okay, is there a difference in the grey and black rtv? drying time recomended? and okay. ive just heard that the aux pully can put extra pressure on the snout, i dont know how true that is. but if it will prevent belt slip i think its worth it.

i bought my headers off a guy locally so they didnt come with the bolts. i could contact kooks. and get them from them i suppose.

 

[19COBRA93]

okay, is there a difference in the grey and black rtv? drying time recomended? and okay. ive just heard that the aux pully can put extra pressure on the snout, i dont know how true that is. but if it will prevent belt slip i think its worth it.

I'm not sure what the difference is in the RTV. Ford uses Black when assembling these engines, but the available RTV through Ford is Grey (TA-29), which is also used on the diesels. So that's what I use. Drying time should really be a full day. But on diff covers and many other parts I use it on, it's been good to go in a few hours.

The aux idler will never in no way hurt the snout of the blower. It simply takes up slack in the belt and adds a slightly more amount of wrap on the SC pulley. That's it. It doesn't push or pull or do anything else. As long as the tensioner is within it's normal range, you're good to go. I ran one on my 2.9L, and it allowed me to run the 2.7" pulley without a hint of belt slip.

 

[brandonflood123]

I'm not sure what the difference is in the RTV. Ford uses Black when assembling these engines, but the available RTV through Ford is Grey (TA-29), which is also used on the diesels. So that's what I use. Drying time should really be a full day. But on diff covers and many other parts I use it on, it's been good to go in a few hours.

The aux idler will never in no way hurt the snout of the blower. It simply takes up slack in the belt and adds a slightly more amount of wrap on the SC pulley. That's it. It doesn't push or pull or do anything else. As long as the tensioner is within it's normal range, you're good to go. I ran one on my 2.9L, and it allowed me to run the 2.7" pulley without a hint of belt slip.

thats awesome, i might have to pick me up an all black aux pully now haha, always kinda liked they way they looked aswell. so scince you had the 2.9l, what mods did you have and what kinda power out put did you make? mine has the 3" pully on it right now.

 

[19COBRA93]

thats awesome, i might have to pick me up an all black aux pully now haha, always kinda liked they way they looked aswell. so scince you had the 2.9l, what mods did you have and what kinda power out put did you make? mine has the 3" pully on it right now.

I was running a 15% overdrive crank and 2.70" upper (23lbs at my altitude), ARH longtubes, JLT 127, SCJ mono, ID1000's, BAP, full 3" exhaust, everything else stock. And it made 824/690, and went 10.30@137. With cams and even a better tune it would have been that much better.

 

[brandonflood123]

I was running a 15% overdrive crank and 2.70" upper (23lbs at my altitude), ARH longtubes, JLT 127, SCJ mono, ID1000's, BAP, full 3" exhaust, everything else stock. And it made 824/690, and went 10.30@137. With cams and even a better tune it would have been that much better.

wow thats impressive. im hoping to break 700-740ish. then hope that it hooks lol

 

[JLear]

I have a 2.9 with a 3" upper and stock lower, with stock belt and no idler, no belt slip at all. On the best pull it peaked at 17.7 and on one of the other pulls it actually broke 18.

 

[Nsssane1]

Also if you think you'll need a clutch this would be the best time to change it. I had to pull the Whipple back off for the clutch job!! And the rear drivers side bolt is a pain to get in and out, it takes the longest.

 

[Goose17]

I spoke with the guys at Ford Racing as well as Whipple. I was told to NOT use an aux idler as they cause stress on the snout by pulling at an angle not intended and can lead to bearing failure. I have a 90mm idler that replaced the existing idler as well as a Thump Tensioner. Those, combined with a green Gates and I have no belt issues.

I did a step-by-step install thread on the other site if you need additional help.

 

[scotsam]

I used permatex ultra black but reading the specs I believe permatex the-right-stuff would have been a better choice. I'm running a stock belt with the stock idler and a 3"pulley with absolutely no belt slip. I have long tubes and I have removed the transmission without removing the blower. (But maybe I'm just the chosen one? Ehh probably not!) so I'm assuming you could put headers on after the blower but if you have them why not be safe and put them on first.

 

[SCGallo2]

I used permatex gray rtv. Be sure to fill the hex head bolts on the bottom of the blower plate first, then a nice bead around the factory blower/intake gasket to prevent boost leaks. Torque to spec and allow to cure overnight. Stock belt will work fine with 3" pulley. I installed a double bearing 90mm aux idler pulley after thinking I was experiencing belt slip at high rpm. The aux idler is recommended by Ford Racing/Whipple install instructions for stock belt and 3" and smaller pulley. I have stock exhaust with exception of Borla S axle-backs, so no experience with headers, but once the Whipple is on, firewall clearance is minimum, so I would install the headers first. I did have my clutch replaced after Whipple install, so some cars may have more firewall clearance than others. My car dyno'd at 683/644 WHP/TQ on 93 octane street tune. It's a good weekend project, enjoy!

 

[19COBRA93]

I spoke with the guys at Ford Racing as well as Whipple. I was told to NOT use an aux idler as they cause stress on the snout by pulling at an angle not intended and can lead to bearing failure. I have a 90mm idler that replaced the existing idler as well as a Thump Tensioner. Those, combined with a green Gates and I have no belt issues.

I did a step-by-step install thread on the other site if you need additional help.

I don't know who you talked to, but they don't know their head from their ass. The myth that an aux idler causes undue stress on the snout is just that, a myth.

The aux idler doesn't push, pull, or anything else. Even if it did, the bearing in the snout is round, which means the pull from the belt can come from any direction with no ill effect. In factory trim, the belt is actually pulling towards the passenger side. With the aux idler, it doesn't change the direction of the belt, and doesn't effect how it pulls on the snout. It simply takes up slack in the belt (exactly like the 90mm idler), and adds a bit more wrap to the feed side of the SC pulley.

The aux idler is placed on the "feed" side of the SC pulley. The "Pull" from the belt by the crank comes from the drivers side, which is unchanged. The angle of pull by the belt is virtually unchanged. Anyone who says otherwise is talking out of their ass. The only thing that can effect the stress on a snout bearing is the belt tension itself, not the angle that the belt is pulling on the snout. As long as the tensioner is within it's normal operating range, the stress on the snout is NO DIFFERENT than it would be from Ford.

Here is a clear pic of how the factory belt is routed. As you can see, it's already being "pulled" at an angle:

Here is my 2.9L without the aux idler:

Here is an aux idler installed. Notice the angle of the belt. It's the same.

Anyway, this isn't meant to be directed at you, I'm just trying to put this myth to rest.

 

[Goose17]

To say the instructions recommend an aux idler is false. The instructions recommend AN IDLER (replacing an existing with a 90mm idler. I spoke with the manufacturer (guys at Whipple) who strongly advised against it. So did the guys at Ford Racing. I thought I was having belt slip and wanted to go with the aux idler until advised not to.

Don't take my word for it. Call Whipple yourself and see what they say.

 

[19COBRA93]

I've talked to Whipple twice about this, and both times I've been told it's perfectly fine, and actually works well with certain pulley sizes that the correct belt length isn't available for.

 

[Goose17]

I've talked to Whipple twice about this, and both times I've been told it's perfectly fine, and actually works well with certain pulley sizes that the correct belt length isn't available for.

All good then. The guy I spoke with said they have seen failures because of aux idlers.

 

[19COBRA93]

All good then. The guy I spoke with said they have seen failures because of aux idlers.

I don't believe that. It's almost physically impossible.

 

[Goose17]

Well, I just spoke with Mike at Whipple and he said it was most likely the guys at Ford Racing that told me this and said that he sees no problem with running an aux idler.

I stand corrected.

 

[SCGallo2]

To say the instructions recommend an aux idler is false. The instructions recommend AN IDLER (replacing an existing with a 90mm idler. I spoke with the manufacturer (guys at Whipple) who strongly advised against it. So did the guys at Ford Racing. I thought I was having belt slip and wanted to go with the aux idler until advised not to.

Don't take my word for it. Call Whipple yourself and see what they say.

Correction to my previous post... the word "aux" is not in the instructions. I respect your interpretation and application on your car.