2.9 with ported heads and cams build.

Kevin @ Wicked

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are there any signs that since the engine is mis-timed that any ptv contact has been made? if you're lucky and nothing has hit, then why are you talking about sending the motor somewhere? pull the vc's and timing cover and retime it, correctly. few hours of work and little to no more money(if no damage has occured) and you're back in business.


Im not thinking its as simple as being a tooth off. Im thinking more in the lines that the cam grind may be off. To have this kinda varience a/f wise points directly to combustion process quality or lack there of.

I had a 2v cammed car do a very similar phenomenon for me, and after sending both cams to LM Engines, Mike @ LM deemed one of the grinds "off" more so the midleft numbers and opening closing events.

Its very simple to "time" these engines with the marks and the chains as per factory, but once you get into degree changes etc, its a little more complicated than that, especially with 4 cams and a slave chain.

I have a elaborate ford pinpoint test to run thru to try and remedy the 340 code first, and once i find the issue with that or lack there off i will be doing some basic health tests just so Al has them and can add them to his folder of INFO on this debacle.
 

mach1033

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So for arguments sake let's say that it is a mismatch of cams is this something that you wouldn't find out until after the install or would there have been sure signs of this during the installation process?
 

Ironhand

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I wonder if its a combination of the intake cam being advanced and the exhaust cam being retarded.
Could the valve covers be taken off and the cam part numbers verified to insure accurate location as well? I could see the cams being installed in the wrong location but I'm not even sure if the car would run in that condition. Even if the intake cam was very advanced i wouldn't think it would show as 1.5 points leaner and if it is that advanced ptv clearance would be a major concern.

Could a single injector not be firing correctly and show that entire bank lean? And not throw a code?
 
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Kevin @ Wicked

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I wonder if its a combination of the intake cam being advanced and the exhaust cam being retarded.
Could the valve covers be taken off and the cam part numbers verified to insure accurate location as well? I could see the cams being installed in the wrong location but I'm not even sure if the car would run in that condition. Even if the intake cam was very advanced i wouldn't think it would show as 1.5 points leaner and if it is that advanced ptv clearance would be a major concern.

Could a single injector not be firing correctly and show that entire bank lean? And not throw a code?

Remember this motor originally grenaded on the driver side (cam sprocket broket/chain) which I KNOW was due to PTV clearance, but the builder won't give any info or what the remedy was when the motor was returned "fixed". Its also know that the otherside might not have been checked after this first dilemma. So i wouldnt be surprised if we have some questionable PTV clearance measurements on this passenger bank giving me these readings.

Im not even thinking its a "advance/retard" issue in correspondence with the other side. Im thinking the cam itself if fubar'd and the specs its "ground on" aren't there. Like i said, case in point, the 2v i did which the cams were sent to LM and he spun them on his cam doctor, which showed the issue clear as day. Got new cams, same spec, just "correct" and the car ran perfect.

Right now its not feasible for me to tear into this motor to get all this other data, i have so much other stuff going on, i have enough time alloted to try and remedy the DTC and do some health tests.

UNFORTUNATELY its the engine builders job who got paid for his services to make sure the cams are correct, installed correct, ptv checked, and when and if they were degree'd would have picked up on an issue in the grind, because the rotating numbers on the degree wheel and atdc btdc wouldnt jive. I know thats what I do when I assemble long blocks for customers who hire me for such work.
 

Kevin @ Wicked

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I have to still perform an injector balance test thru IDS, and power balance which is only a small indication if theres an issue. Whats sad is this motor was just out again, and all this could have been gone over with a fine tooth comb on the mechanical side to ensure its nothing of the sort we are talking about.
 

Ironhand

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Kevin that just made me think. I could see the cam specs off. But lets say they arent and the builder through new valves in the heads without lapping the valves in. That would create a mismatch between the valve and the seat that would effective leave that valve partially open all the time and could help create a lean condition.

If the engine builder isn't answering all of the questions then we both know he is probably hidding something he didn't do or something he did incorrectly.

Just thinking out loud.
 

Kevin @ Wicked

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Kevin that just made me think. I could see the cam specs off. But lets say they arent and the builder through new valves in the heads without lapping the valves in. That would create a mismatch between the valve and the seat that would effective leave that valve partially open all the time and could help create a lean condition.

If the engine builder isn't answering all of the questions then we both know he is probably hidding something he didn't do or something he did incorrectly.

Just thinking out loud.

I hear ya, just sucks on all aspects. I feel like a detective, trying to figure out who committed the crime. Motorsports forensics :)

Also keep in mind a from an a/f standpoint misfires and incomplete burn can result in both a rich or lean condition depending on how much raw fuel is expelled into the exhaust. So it makes tracking this much harder. I can only hang my hat on the fact that there is this severe imbalance (that im not sure was present prior to original boom) because i didnt have data YET on that side and was merely stretching its legs on the dyno before i started getting into calibration. Wish i knew if it was there "before"......
 

03Steve

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I'd make sure the alternator isn't causing the P0340, set the OBDII test switch to 0 for a temporary P0340 "remedy", and do a compression test for info. If the compression test shows bank to bank variance (probable given Kevin's experience and observations), it needs a teardown. And I'd be present for the blueprinting of the engine myself. Whether I was spinning the degree wheel or not.

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes. Debacles like this are why many racers (myself included) have learned to do a lot of things on their own instead of paying for labor and putting trust in others. It is insanely frustrating.
 
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Kevin @ Wicked

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I'd make sure the alternator isn't causing the P0340, set the OBDII test switch to 0 for a temporary P0340 "remedy", and do a compression test for info. If the compression test shows bank to bank variance (probable given Kevin's experience and observations), it needs a teardown. And I'd be present for the blueprinting of the engine myself. Whether I was spinning the degree wheel or not.

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes. Debacles like this are why many racers (myself included) have learned to do a lot of things on their own instead of paying for labor and putting trust in others. It is insanely frustrating.

Steve the alternator was replaced with a new unit prior to me receiving the vehicle. Actually I believe 2 alternators.........

Im going to scope the cam sensor reading while its running and look for AC sine wave activity if thats the culprit. As making sure the complete circuit passes the pinpoint.

The health tests are next to follow.
 

mach1033

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Lets see if three times a charm. I just dropped my motor off to L&M this morning and Mike said he will start to break the motor down on Wednesday. Fingers crossed.
 

mach1033

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Thanks Gabe. This is my absolute last time with this BS. Things seem to be on the up and up there so we shall see.
 

Senkak

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I saw you mention you motor in another thread but didn't want to ask.
Michael will absolutely take care of you.
Rest assured it will come back ready to go.
BTW, hurry up! NMRA Bradenton is in 3 weeks!!
 

mach1033

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I saw you mention you motor in another thread but didn't want to ask.
Michael will absolutely take care of you.
Rest assured it will come back ready to go.
BTW, hurry up! NMRA Bradenton is in 3 weeks!!

I wish I could go :( but I will be down next year for sure. Plus I need seat time to get use to my car again.
 

eaglesnick

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Did Mike give you any idea on a timeframe? I know the time can vary depending on what he finds once he opens her up.
 

Blueline

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Good luck Al....... I'm anxiously waiting for some good news for you so we can meet up this summer for some cruises and beers!!
 

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