13/14 VS 11/12

[gimmie11s]

This is right out of the article from mustang360 about the rods, 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 Trinity 5.8L V8 - Power Of Three - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine

"The new piston is supplied by Mahle. While a conventional design, it does feature thick bulkheads to better support the piston dome. The angled geometry of these bulkheads is such that the small end of the connecting rod would no longer fit, so the small end of the rod was ground off at an angle, with the top of the small end narrower than the bottom of the piston-pin bore in the rod. Of course, if you change one thing you change another, and narrowing the small end of the rod closed the edge distance from the piston pin oiling hole in the top of the rod so much that Brendan Vido's computer modeling showed the rod became weak. Luckily the oil squirters put so much oil onto the bottom of the piston that there's no need for the oil hole in the 5.8, so the hole was deleted and rod strength preserved. Otherwise, the 5.8 connecting rod is unchanged from its 5.4 starting point."

So yes they did narrow the rods, but it did not weaken them, and yes i agree with you, you can shift at 6,500 if you're racing, but just driving around I would keep it at 6k.

So, exactly what I said basically lol.

My opinion is the top end of the rod is weaker. You disagree and that's all good.

I guess the point is theyre not the same rod and theyre both pretty weak.


Call me the odd man out but if/when I do a GT500 again, it'll be a 2010. Iron block 5.4 (the strongest) paired with the much better looks of the 11-14 cars. Add wideband o2's and go carve your own path to 850whp while looking good doing it. Not to mention save a ton of $$ because the 2010's are kind of a bastard child and get no love.

 

[merkyworks]

This is just my option....

11/12 have lower entry price point and if plan on heavily modding the car than it makes more since go this route. 13/14 are great if your not really looking to mod the car a lot and just want a very powerful car as is. Example you pay more for the 13/14 electronic Bilstein adjustable shocks so if you want to put coilovers on the car it doesn't make since to get a 13/14.

From a power standpoint its a little bit of apple to oranges if you compare 07-12 Vs 13-14 motors.
07-12 5.4
-slightly lower compression can tolerate higher boost levels on 93 octane and could make it easier to tune
-have to upgrade to a TVS or better but once you do power output is very similar to a 5.8

13-14 5.8
-slightly higher compression can't tolerate higher boost levels on 93 octane as well and can make for harder tuning
-already have a TVS but need to port or upgrade the elbow
-larger bore helps to unshroud valves more which helps flow potential
-better cams (Ford GT)


I'm not sure the exact $$ I have spent on my 12 (don't want to know actually lol) but with the mods listed below I'm making 672whp. Now if you compare my mods to @2011 gtcs mods they are not exactly spot on the same but they are pretty darn close and he is making 726whp (funny how we use the same digits just in a different order). So where does the extra 54whp come from, tune? Ford GT cams? more displacement? weather? dyno? So they are close to each other but not exactly the same.

 

[ZYBORG]

13-14 is top dog no question about it. This isnt even debatable.

You can, however, mod an 07-12 to be faster. Then again, you can also do that with a civic.

All gt500 start to push the limits at 750+ rwhp. 13-14s get to their “threshold” so easily, it is illegal in 5 countries. While the other 500s take a bit more work.

 

[Klaus]

Call me the odd man out but if/when I do a GT500 again, it'll be a 2010. Iron block 5.4 (the strongest)

I cannot recall who it was that I was talking to when discussing my motor build but was told that the aluminum 5.4 blocks are actually stronger than the iron blocks. I think it might have been JDM or L&M? Whoever it was had a rebuild kit for each and the power levels are lower on the iron block.

 

[gimmie11s]

I cannot recall who it was that I was talking to when discussing my motor build but was told that the aluminum 5.4 blocks are actually stronger than the iron blocks. I think it might have been JDM or L&M? Whoever it was had a rebuild kit for each and the power levels are lower on the iron block.

Bahahahaha. Link??

Iron motors have made 1200+ with no sleeves, no funny spray business and on the cheap.

How much more do you need?


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[2011 gtcs]

I cannot recall who it was that I was talking to when discussing my motor build but was told that the aluminum 5.4 blocks are actually stronger than the iron blocks. I think it might have been JDM or L&M? Whoever it was had a rebuild kit for each and the power levels are lower on the iron block.

Bahahahaha. Link??

Iron motors have made 1200+ with no sleeves, no funny spray business and on the cheap.

How much more do you need?


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

Maybe a aluminum 5.4 with darton cylinder sleeves it's probably almost as strong as the iron block, but it's damn near impossible to hurt those iron blocks. All depends on your budget.

 

[Klaus]

Bahahahaha. Link??

Iron motors have made 1200+ with no sleeves, no funny spray business and on the cheap.

How much more do you need?


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

Its killing me that I cannot find it. I was in process of planning my conversion from 5.4 to sleeved 5.8 and this came up. I do not have a dog in the fight either way, but remember seeing this and being surprised as consensus is that the iron block is stronger.

 

[gimmie11s]

The draw of the aluminum motors is weigh savings.. over 100 lbs.

Like 2011 gts said, no doubt a properly sleeved/prepped 5.4 aluminum block is stout AF. However, I'd like to know the weight penalty you give back once you go sleeved. I have to imagine its 40 lbs or better.

At that point... you have to ask yourself, why not save $5k++ and just go iron?

 

[Klaus]

I have to imagine its 40 lbs or better.

21.4 lbs according to Darton

 

[gimmie11s]

Just over 2 lbs per sleeve? Wow that's impressive.

 

[Brutal Metal]

Just over 2 lbs per sleeve? Wow that's impressive.

That's a light sleeve.

 

[4VandHemiKiller]

So, exactly what I said basically lol.
Call me the odd man out but if/when I do a GT500 again, it'll be a 2010. Iron block 5.4 (the strongest) paired with the much better looks of the 11-14 cars.

The 5.4 iron block is actually much weaker than the 5.4 aluminum block thanks the iron block's very thin cylinder walls (~.120") and thin cast mains.
The 5.4 aluminum block is actually one of the strongest OEM castings available from any manufacturer and will handle over double the power of an iron block with a decent flanged cylinder liner.

 

[Klaus]

Bahahahaha. Link??

Bahahaha
“That’s a general misconception,” Mihovetz said in regards to iron blocks being stronger than aluminum ones. “Ideally, it depends on strength, and what you’re doing. Certainly, the iron block is a pretty decent piece up to a point, and if you’re below that point it works fine. If strength is required beyond, by far the Teksid block is the best piece — specifically the 4.6 4-valve engines.”

Mihovetz continued his thoughts on the comparison. “It’s the same issue with the 5.4 block. The biggest negative thing about the iron block is that the cylinders are too thin on an untouched block. If you sonic-check the thickness, you would find that it’s between .120- to .125-inch, so it’s just too thin,” He said. “And, of course, everyone thinks bigger is better, so they bore it .030 over and thin the cylinder wall out even more.”

Clearing Up Mod Motor Misconceptions With John Mihovetz

I am still on the hunt for where I saw the enginebuilder quote that their rebuild kit will not work in iron block because of weakness.

 

[Catmonkey]

I am still on the hunt for where I saw the enginebuilder quote that their rebuild kit will not work in iron block because of weakness.

Pretty sure it was JDM. I recall seeing that posted a few times. Here's one.

 

[gimmie11s]

Bahahaha
“That’s a general misconception,” Mihovetz said in regards to iron blocks being stronger than aluminum ones. “Ideally, it depends on strength, and what you’re doing. Certainly, the iron block is a pretty decent piece up to a point, and if you’re below that point it works fine. If strength is required beyond, by far the Teksid block is the best piece — specifically the 4.6 4-valve engines.”

Mihovetz continued his thoughts on the comparison. “It’s the same issue with the 5.4 block. The biggest negative thing about the iron block is that the cylinders are too thin on an untouched block. If you sonic-check the thickness, you would find that it’s between .120- to .125-inch, so it’s just too thin,” He said. “And, of course, everyone thinks bigger is better, so they bore it .030 over and thin the cylinder wall out even more.”

Clearing Up Mod Motor Misconceptions With John Mihovetz

I am still on the hunt for where I saw the enginebuilder quote that their rebuild kit will not work in iron block because of weakness.

Took you a whole day to dig that one up eh? I must have really got you thinking. LOL

I’ll stand by my assertion that an iron block will support more power than 99% of people need on this site—including you.




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[Klaus]

Iron block 5.4 (the strongest)

I’ll stand by my assertion that

Your assertion was that an iron block is stronger than an aluminum block. It is not.

 

[COOL COBRA]

Since the arrival of the 13/14 GT500 I've noticed a trend. Owners of the 13/14 are positive, others, not so much.
Some of the negative camp have bolted every single part of the 13/14 to an earlier car though..
Out.

 

[2011 gtcs]

Bahahaha
“That’s a general misconception,” Mihovetz said in regards to iron blocks being stronger than aluminum ones. “Ideally, it depends on strength, and what you’re doing. Certainly, the iron block is a pretty decent piece up to a point, and if you’re below that point it works fine. If strength is required beyond, by far the Teksid block is the best piece — specifically the 4.6 4-valve engines.”

Mihovetz continued his thoughts on the comparison. “It’s the same issue with the 5.4 block. The biggest negative thing about the iron block is that the cylinders are too thin on an untouched block. If you sonic-check the thickness, you would find that it’s between .120- to .125-inch, so it’s just too thin,” He said. “And, of course, everyone thinks bigger is better, so they bore it .030 over and thin the cylinder wall out even more.”

Clearing Up Mod Motor Misconceptions With John Mihovetz

I am still on the hunt for where I saw the enginebuilder quote that their rebuild kit will not work in iron block because of weakness.

Great article, I always enjoy learning new stuff like that.

 

[gimmie11s]

Your assertion was that an iron block is stronger than an aluminum block. It is not.

You have no way to prove your position and either do I so....

Obviously engine builders are going to push whichever will line their pockets the fattest.

At the end of the day... it’s your money so spend it how you want.

If the car started as an iron motor car, I don’t see why you’d pay such a huge premium to save 80 lbs.

Guess that’s just me.



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[Klaus]

You have no way to prove your position and either do I so....

“It’s the same issue with the 5.4 block. The biggest negative thing about the iron block is that the cylinders are too thin on an untouched block. If you sonic-check the thickness, you would find that it’s between .120- to .125-inch, so it’s just too thin,”

Not trying to be a dick at all about this, but there actually is proof. The walls on an FE block are definitively thinner than an AL block. Motor builders that are building big HP applications use AL as a result. For ****'s sake it is OK to say "you know what, I thought FE blocks were stronger but it turns out they are not."

Edit: do not disagree with point of swapping out an FE block. The flip side is that you would be stupid to switch out an AL block to an FE block thinking that they are stronger. Because they are not.