Essentially the 10-12 and 13-14 are the same chassis, so virtually any component can be swapped between cars. Some will be more complex than others. Most electrical will require a later wiring harness or some portion thereof.
'13-14 upgrades on '07-12 GT500s
- Thread starter biminiLX
- Start date
From a cooling standpoint, I would think the higher flow 2013/14 I/C pump would be a nice upgrade with the 2013/14 S/C coolant plumbing that the SVT Engineers designed to keep the majority of the S/C coolant flow away from the degas bottle. As mentioned previously, the larger radiator cool fan/shroud assy., a nice plug-n-play piece to the earlier cars and then the I/C and H/E upgrades, but the 2013/14 I/C has been out flowed by the Kenne Bell BIGUN, so if a person is at the point of changing their I/C, there is no reason other than a couple of hundred dollars to install the lower flowing 2013/14 I/C in an earlier car. The H/E's offered aftermarket with fans far surpass what was oem for 2013/14 and can have a much larger area for heat transfer, depending upon the aftermarket H/E that is chosen.
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Speaking of which, here's how I retrofit a 13-14 intercooler pump in my 2012. Adventures in Intercooling
I know you mounted your 2013/14 pump on the fender rail, but for a 2011/12 with electric steering, the retrofit of this pump on a 2011/12 in the 2013/14 location is almost a plug-n-play and can look like "Ford put it there" with the correct oem hardware, brackets and fasteners. The pump wiring harness can even be fabricated to blend-in as an oem install.
On the earlier cars, like my 2008, the 2013/14 pump can also be installed in the oem 2013/14 pump location on the timing cover (using all of the correct 2013/14 hardware), but it requires rerouting the P/S pressure line. I have done this and after the P/S line reroute, the 2008-2010 can also have an oem looking 2013/14 I/C pump install, and the reroute of the P/S line is not a noticeable item when the hood is open.
After the 2013/14 pump is mounted on a 2007-2012 in the oem 2013/14 timing cover location, all oem I/C hoses connect and it works like a 2013/14 system.
Unlike the 2007-2012, the 2013/14 S/C cooling system does not run the main coolant flow through the reservoir. Running the main flow through the reservoir can cause degas air to be mixed into the coolant flow through hard acceleration, braking, left turn and right turn. Degas air mixing into the S/C coolant flow only degrades the systems ability to remove heat, that is why the SVT Engineers by-passed the reservoir with the main coolant flow for 2013 and ONLY allowed a controlled/restricted amount of flow to and through that reservoir for de-gas purposes.
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If you read the thread you'll see I made my own free-flowing bypass similar to that used in the 13-14 but with fewer bends and the use of downsized adapters at a mere fraction of the cost of the factory by-pass hose. It even incorporates the 3x reservoir. I elected to mount the pump out of the path of heated fan wash and mounted it in a much cooler location.
Your location for the pump is definitely cooler in temp. Were you also able to put a restrictor in the line pointing toward the inlet/upper nipple of the 3X? <<That is also a key factor in limiting the flow toward the reservoir and forcing the main flow around the reservoir.
I am not sure how many, or if any other aftermarket reservoir manufacturers are building a 2013/14 specific S/C reservoir, but C&R has a nice unit, no hose cutting required and it connects into the oem by-pass hose while also adding some S/C coolant capacity.........
Shown above are is the 2013/14 S/C reservoir in Black and Natural Alum., the Natural Alum. has the 2013/14 by-pass hose and the Black 2013/14 reservoir has the 2007-2012 upper hose. This tank appears to be a plug-n-play for all 2007-2014 GT500's without any hose cutting or modifications while also adding cooling capacity and the metal tank look.
The bottom outlet is just like the 2007-2014 oem S/C reservoir and comes out at a 90 degree, no hose mods at that end either.....
^^^^When I came across this C&R 2013/14 tank, I thought that it appears to be a nice option for the GT500 owner who wants to add the look of metal tanks, but who does not want to cut up their expensive oem GT500 hoses to plumb it into the S/C cooling system.
The Roush 3X on the other hand (and I have on eon my 2008),......it plumbs into the system like most of the other aftermarket tanks I have seen.......Start cutting hoses......
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Also, the 2013/14 by-pass hose shown below.......The red arrow is pointing at the clamp which is holding the restrictor in place at the upper end reservoir attachment.
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^^^^The restrictor inside of that upper hose is an important part of this by-pass system to limit coolant flow to, and through the S/C reservoir.
R
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^^^^The restrictor inside of that upper hose is an important part of this by-pass system to limit coolant flow to, and through the S/C reservoir.
R
I got a plastic sleeve from McMaster Carr to put inside the hose to the reservoir to restrict flow, but my hose from the intercooler adapter to the reservoir was too short to pull that off. My reservoir is set back closer to the engine because of the larger C&R radiator. My solution was to thread the inside of the circled area with a 3/8" NPT tap and use a fitting inside to close up the i.d.
I had a plastic 3/8" NPT barbed fitting that was left over from a pump for an outdoor fountain and it had a 3/8" barb on the other end. I screwed the fitting into the tee to where it was tight and cut the fitting flush with the barb on the tee. The i.d. of that restriction ended up close to 3/8". I can see coolant movement in the reservoir, but the coolant coming through the inlet is a fairly weak stream. Not only is this mentioned in the write up, but it also tells how to wire the pump to run at full volume, which using the standard two wire pump harness will not accomplish.
I wouldn't consider the flow restrictor to be critical, but cant hurt to have one. I had one standing by, but after hooking my hoses up the flow to the degas bottle was significantly reduced using the 90* T-connector. Ive got a trickle of flow through the bottle. Absolutely nothing like when I originally tried to run it in the 07-12 configuration lmao.
If you look at Robert's pic of the by-pass hose, you'll see the by-pass terminates into the tee in a way that it could impede flow direction and/or volume, which may be necessitating the need for the restrictor.
Routing it like this doesn't give the coolant a straight path into the reservoir, so it's possible a restrictor isn't necessary.
Routing it like this doesn't give the coolant a straight path into the reservoir, so it's possible a restrictor isn't necessary.
Since the pump is sucking at that lower point, I would guess that it is sucking/flowing all that it needs through that T? If it were pushing at or to that T, then yes there could be a restriction. I would guess the SVT Engineers R&D'ed this to work the way it should for a 200mph capable Mustang from the assy. line?
The restrictor in the upper hose is to restrict coolant flow to/through the tank, they want the coolant to bypass the degas air. The only way to accomplish that is to restrict one side since the coolant is being sucked equally through the bypass and through the reservoir. If the restrictor were not in place at the bottle entry point, the flow would be increased and the chance of air/coolant mixing would also be increased. the goal was to minimize degas air in the coolant flow and use the reservoir as a degas tank and a fill point. The S/C coolant on the 2013/14 now flows as does the engine coolant with the reservoirs being a degas point, but not a main coolant flow.
...........and it still comes back to that 2013/14 C&R S/C reservoir.......what a nice piece.
R
Another Great question would be.......Why did the SVT Engineers, with all of the Ford R&D resources at their disposal choose to put the 2013 I/C pump on the timing cover in the heat and attached to the hot engine??
It could have been placed in the oem 2007-2012 location on the H/E out of the engine compartment heat, it could have been mounted in an area behind the bumper? or anywhere else besides the hot engine. Plumbing the by-pass hose system is the only reason I can think of? IDK.....
I know that road debris would also be a concern to the engineers, you wouldn't want to take the chance of a truck tire recap (or anything else) flying up and taking out the I/C pump and/or plumbing. but then again, there was no protection on the 2013/14 in front of the H/E........and a few have been damaged from loose items on the road.
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It could have been placed in the oem 2007-2012 location on the H/E out of the engine compartment heat, it could have been mounted in an area behind the bumper? or anywhere else besides the hot engine. Plumbing the by-pass hose system is the only reason I can think of? IDK.....
I know that road debris would also be a concern to the engineers, you wouldn't want to take the chance of a truck tire recap (or anything else) flying up and taking out the I/C pump and/or plumbing. but then again, there was no protection on the 2013/14 in front of the H/E........and a few have been damaged from loose items on the road.
R
I'm confident the pressure differential will be the same on either end of the pump. Fluid dynamics are pretty predictable in a closed system. All those 90* turns in that hose just serve to make more pressure in the system. More pressure just serves to reduce the amount of coolant that can be circulated efficiently by the pump. Since I"m pushing at least another 200 rwhp over what Ford designed, in addition to 50% more coolant, I'm looking for more improvement. If Ford Engineering was the end all be all, there would be no need for the aftermarket. Ford's mission was to design a high horsepower "affordable" Mustang, nothing more nothing less. If you think the factory by-pass is worth Ford's $375 list price, by all means, go for it.
It may be as simple as where can we install the pump where it's most serviceable. The by-pass may have been an afterthought to fix to the problem of coolant frothing in the reservoir. I'm sure a lot of owners with burnt pump wires are wondering whether theit R&D went far enough. Are the wires too small. Is here too much vibration being mounted on the engine? Is it a product of too much heat? Hmmm....
Not to mention the factory heat exchanger list price is over $2,800. What's a $300 intercooler pump compared to that? Unless road debris rips off my bumper cover, my pump is well out of harm's way and would be the least of my worries if that happens.
I definitely wouldn't pay $375 for that by-pass hose assy., I thought it was around $250-$275 and to me that was high. Instead I shopped smart and picked up three of them at $99ea. new on eBay about 2 years ago. Knowing the price of that hose assy., I knew I couldn't get hurt at that price. I have already sold one of the three for $175, I am already ahead of the game.
When I am finally done with the 2013/14 by-pass system on my 2008, I want it to look like Ford put it there.
I have not heard any 2013/14 owner complaining about I/C pump failure, even on the 2013/14 specific forum, but I could have missed those posts.
I do like your by-pass hose build for the Roush 3X, it looks like a nicely engineered set-up to incorporate that plastic tank. I think the key for any of the by-pass build is to have the tank at the highest point in the system, which it is (that is where degas air will naturally collect), and have all coolant flow/hosing lower in the system, which it is.
As for more hp output.......Think of the many owners who have added a larger S/C (in some cases much larger than the 2013 TVS) and have done nothing more for the S/C cooling than adding a larger fanned H/E and a larger reservoir? My thoughts are "at a minimum" the system should updated to at least the oem TVS cooling level for updated cooling efficiency, and take advantage of deep pockets R&D from Ford...................But, all of that costs $$$$ and those updates aren't felt in the "seat of the pants".
R
When I am finally done with the 2013/14 by-pass system on my 2008, I want it to look like Ford put it there.
I have not heard any 2013/14 owner complaining about I/C pump failure, even on the 2013/14 specific forum, but I could have missed those posts.
I do like your by-pass hose build for the Roush 3X, it looks like a nicely engineered set-up to incorporate that plastic tank. I think the key for any of the by-pass build is to have the tank at the highest point in the system, which it is (that is where degas air will naturally collect), and have all coolant flow/hosing lower in the system, which it is.
As for more hp output.......Think of the many owners who have added a larger S/C (in some cases much larger than the 2013 TVS) and have done nothing more for the S/C cooling than adding a larger fanned H/E and a larger reservoir? My thoughts are "at a minimum" the system should updated to at least the oem TVS cooling level for updated cooling efficiency, and take advantage of deep pockets R&D from Ford...................But, all of that costs $$$$ and those updates aren't felt in the "seat of the pants".
R
Robert, there actually have been some 13/14 pump failures, but it's not actually the pump. It has been inadequate wiring from Ford for the demand of the pump, even at 50% flow.
I built my intercooler system with the Bigun brick, and a 10gal rear ice tank and incorporated a second stock pump in the rear.
Those '13-14 specific tanks I believe are sold through Revan Racing.
-J
I built my intercooler system with the Bigun brick, and a 10gal rear ice tank and incorporated a second stock pump in the rear.
Those '13-14 specific tanks I believe are sold through Revan Racing.
-J
On my hose routing, I placed both the inlet and outlet hoses for the reservoir circuit on the 90 degree portions of the T. All of the flow out of the intercooler down to the pump went into the T and out of it straight through.
Looking at the hose routing on the factory 13-14 piece, the engineers did the opposite on the reservoir outlet. The hose from the initial T was routed to the 90 degree T on the last T. The reservoir hose is hooked up to the straight through T. The pump is getting better suction out of the reservoir outlet in this config, and I can see why the restrictor was necessary.
If I had to venture a guess, either the manufacturing budget for that part or simply the placement of the pump off the drivers valve cover forced the hose routing and restrictor they chose.
Looking at the hose routing on the factory 13-14 piece, the engineers did the opposite on the reservoir outlet. The hose from the initial T was routed to the 90 degree T on the last T. The reservoir hose is hooked up to the straight through T. The pump is getting better suction out of the reservoir outlet in this config, and I can see why the restrictor was necessary.
If I had to venture a guess, either the manufacturing budget for that part or simply the placement of the pump off the drivers valve cover forced the hose routing and restrictor they chose.
I posted list prices. Tasca has the by-pass hose for ~$250, plus whatever they charge to get it to you. No telling what local dealerships charge common folk. I'm not a mechanic by trade, so I don't get any breaks. I'm sure with shipping and ordering on-line I pay less.
You’re correct, the return style pumps continue to run KOEO. If you go with a Fore kit, you tap into the green/violet wire on the FPDM harness in the trunk to activate your pumps with KO. If one of the other wires in that harness provides KOEO power for a few seconds and then shuts off you would just need to tap that one instead.
Yes, $250+ is the price I remember owners complaining about when they went the "build your own" route, and I agree $250+ is a lot of $$$ for that hose assy., but......it is 2 year only and GT500 specific......
The T at the top, by the upper tank nipple, is the key. The "straight" portion in line with the I/C 90 and the T at the bottom is intentional for the preferred flow, the other part of the T, the short side is toward the restrictor to limit the flow to minimal degas function.
I know of a couple of owners who complained they did not see any movement in the bottle and could not tell if their pump is working, that is good. Turbulence in the Degas air can mix air into the liquid.....not optimal for a cooling system. If the pump is not working, poor performance will be an indicator soon enough to raise flags that there is an issue that needs further investigation. In the meantime, the 2013/14 degas system is doing exactly what it is supposed to do, degas, and that is not something an owner is going to see unless they have a lot of air in their system.
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Yes, I had read about wire harness issues, but I thought that was from the fuse to the pump.....which would definitely stop the pump action, but that is not a pump issue or a pump location issue OR was it the pump harness from the weather plug into the pump, which would be part of the pump?
Van is a C&R source.
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