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2020+ Shelby GT500 Mustang
10.8@127mph - 4200lbs race weight
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<blockquote data-quote="ANGREY" data-source="post: 16127085" data-attributes="member: 188865"><p>When the Terminators came out, there were guys that dumped $500 into it and had a 700rwhp monster (which, at the time, was pretty special). The terminators were easily a top 3 tuner car of all time. I'd rank it right there with the Grand Nationals and the Dodge SRT-4 in terms of "upside." Those were all cars that had MASSIVE post dealer potential to increase performance for very little money/effort. Basically you had a baby beast waiting to be let out.</p><p></p><p>The entire point is that the GT500 will be SOMEWHAT like that, although I think the new motor is much more advanced in terms of how much power and torque it wrings out. Nonetheless, Ford will "detune" it for warranty and reliability purposes. Within a few months, there'll be guys who remove that slack and run an even bigger monster of a car.</p><p></p><p>The point I was trying to make is that some cars have big upside and big value (i.e. how much car you can end up with for a certain amount of money) and some cars do not. The Hellcat/Demon has VERY LITTLE upside. Why? Because even if you add 200 rwhp to it, it's still a 4500 lb pig.</p><p></p><p>Now, the one area that I think will greatly diminish the value/upside of the new 500 is the price. My PERSONAL opinion is that Ford will not cannibalize GT350 sales and will not seek to directly compete with that price point. I'm thinking the base GT500 starts at somewhere around $80k+ MSRP (and ends up near the 6 figure mark with ADMs) and the carbon fiber track pack STARTS somewhere near the 6 figure mark (before dealer raping).</p><p></p><p>IF that's the case, the 500 comes back down to Earth in terms of value. Are you getting a lot of car and potential? Surely. But you're also paying out the ass for it too.</p><p></p><p>This is why I think IF your goal is to drive a car that goes fast in a straight line, a car like the camaro or the mustang GT is a MUCH MUCH better value than the Mopars. Why? Because you can buy the car, add what you need and at the end of the day, not only have a car that goes FASTER in a straight line, it'll be a car that outperforms in nearly every other category AND it'll cost less to get there (in some cases, MUCH MUCH less).</p><p></p><p>This is EXACTLY the reason why Mopar guys cling to the word stock. Because as an aftermarket car or an absolute what's the fastest, it can't compete. It HAS to be judged on a "stock" basis for it to retain it's value proposition. Any modding quickly exposes just how overpriced it is for the performance (narrow and one dimensional) you get. </p><p></p><p>So as not to have their ego and feelings hurt, Mopar guys insist on comparing the car stock v stock. But that's not reality and that's not the street strip. At the end of the race, few people give more than 0.0 ****s whether your car is stock. No one cares whether or not you paid a fortune either, but the point is cars like the camaro and the mustang GT put extreme level performance WITHIN reach of the average Joe. Hellcats and Demons less so and in my opinion, that's the one achilles heel of this whole argument. The GT500 will be a better car, but it will also cost a bloody fortune.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ANGREY, post: 16127085, member: 188865"] When the Terminators came out, there were guys that dumped $500 into it and had a 700rwhp monster (which, at the time, was pretty special). The terminators were easily a top 3 tuner car of all time. I'd rank it right there with the Grand Nationals and the Dodge SRT-4 in terms of "upside." Those were all cars that had MASSIVE post dealer potential to increase performance for very little money/effort. Basically you had a baby beast waiting to be let out. The entire point is that the GT500 will be SOMEWHAT like that, although I think the new motor is much more advanced in terms of how much power and torque it wrings out. Nonetheless, Ford will "detune" it for warranty and reliability purposes. Within a few months, there'll be guys who remove that slack and run an even bigger monster of a car. The point I was trying to make is that some cars have big upside and big value (i.e. how much car you can end up with for a certain amount of money) and some cars do not. The Hellcat/Demon has VERY LITTLE upside. Why? Because even if you add 200 rwhp to it, it's still a 4500 lb pig. Now, the one area that I think will greatly diminish the value/upside of the new 500 is the price. My PERSONAL opinion is that Ford will not cannibalize GT350 sales and will not seek to directly compete with that price point. I'm thinking the base GT500 starts at somewhere around $80k+ MSRP (and ends up near the 6 figure mark with ADMs) and the carbon fiber track pack STARTS somewhere near the 6 figure mark (before dealer raping). IF that's the case, the 500 comes back down to Earth in terms of value. Are you getting a lot of car and potential? Surely. But you're also paying out the ass for it too. This is why I think IF your goal is to drive a car that goes fast in a straight line, a car like the camaro or the mustang GT is a MUCH MUCH better value than the Mopars. Why? Because you can buy the car, add what you need and at the end of the day, not only have a car that goes FASTER in a straight line, it'll be a car that outperforms in nearly every other category AND it'll cost less to get there (in some cases, MUCH MUCH less). This is EXACTLY the reason why Mopar guys cling to the word stock. Because as an aftermarket car or an absolute what's the fastest, it can't compete. It HAS to be judged on a "stock" basis for it to retain it's value proposition. Any modding quickly exposes just how overpriced it is for the performance (narrow and one dimensional) you get. So as not to have their ego and feelings hurt, Mopar guys insist on comparing the car stock v stock. But that's not reality and that's not the street strip. At the end of the race, few people give more than 0.0 ****s whether your car is stock. No one cares whether or not you paid a fortune either, but the point is cars like the camaro and the mustang GT put extreme level performance WITHIN reach of the average Joe. Hellcats and Demons less so and in my opinion, that's the one achilles heel of this whole argument. The GT500 will be a better car, but it will also cost a bloody fortune. [/QUOTE]
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2020+ Shelby GT500 Mustang
10.8@127mph - 4200lbs race weight
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