04 Cobra idler bearings still good @ 90k ?

[caveeagle]

Alright, this job seems to keep getting more, and more involved.

I have about 90k on the clock, and am just know replacing the original alternator. (I am the original owner BTW).

While I am in this deep, I am replacing both belts. My original tensioners and idler pulleys all appear to be working fine at this point. No unusual noise or vibrations have been observed. A poster here recommended that I should replace all the bearings "while I am in there", so I am seriously thinking about doing just that.

Know I am finding a virtuall crap-load of various information about what bearings to use. Here's what I know so far.
>Seems to be 8 bearings. 3 inner idlers, 3 outer idlers & 2 tensioners.
>all seem to be the same bearing. Ford # CG-425
>Seems like the common part # is the 6203** or 203** which is common to all sorts of crap, like alternators etc.
>several variants of this bearing exist with different seal types
>pricing seems to vary from $3 to $16 each
>Some say you must press them in with a hydro press
>some report using heat on the pulley and freezing the bearing will work too.
>Many reports of these bearings having a short life span. 10k to 20k miles
**Not sure why all 8 of mine have survived 90k miles. Just lucky????
>Several brand names out there. (NTN, KBC, SKF, Koyo)
>No conclusive trend as to the best brand to get


So, I am definately not buying aftermarket idlers at this point. I am either just going to put my stockers back in there, or replace the bearing with the best ones I can find.

Tomorow, I think I might check out one of the local bearing specialty suppliers. That way I can see some options in person.

Please post any information you guys have that might help me out.

 

[highcompression]

I just replaced ALL my idler bearings (inner and outer billet flows) with some Nachi 6203 NSE. Think it takes 9 total bearings to do all. I have had had good luck with the Nachi. Matter of fact, that's what came in my Thump tensioner. It's a good bearing, high temp grease, riveted steel cage, good breathing design on the seals. Minimal grease loss (some is normal on "run in"). I have rebuilt some centrifugal's and been building manual transmissions for years and learned more about bearings then I'll ever need to know. Some of the NSK, SKF, etc have a phelonic cage, smaller (more) balls, inferior grease, and seals that aren't up to the task. Basically the cage, seal type and grease will determine the longevity per application. The Nachi I for mentioned is about identical in every way to the bearings that ford used (cage, grease, seals). I've dissected about every brand, type, and age/use of bearing (a lot of 6203's for that matter, common bearing). I just use a 40 ton hydraulic press that I use for everything, just take time, use press approiately and make sure you're pressing "square". The old heat and cold trick works well too, I do that with some transmission parts ... would likely require some light persuation though, I prefer a press whenever possible.

Just my .02 ......

 

[caveeagle]

Thanks for your input. I will look up the Nachi 6203s.

I only found 8 of them, but will probably order 1 or 2 extras just to be sure.

 

[highcompression]

You're right, stock would be 8 I guess. My snub idler makes it 9.

 

[highcompression]

Oh, eBay is the best way to find bearings. You'll pay 2-5x as much at a bearing store VS "the bay".

 

[Avispa]

Dunno if it's worth the expense right now. It's REALLY rare for an idler bearing to fail without at least some warning (noise) beforehand. If yours are quiet and have no play in them, just leave 'em alone. I have heard of the idler wheels failing without warning from metal fatigue, but never a bearing.

 

[SVTRAT]

upgrade those stamped idlers for better ones unless you want them to explode

 

[caveeagle]

Dunno if it's worth the expense right now. It's REALLY rare for an idler bearing to fail without at least some warning (noise) beforehand. If yours are quiet and have no play in them, just leave 'em alone. I have heard of the idler wheels failing without warning from metal fatigue, but never a bearing.

I would agree with you, accept its soo freakin' involved to get to the inner belt idlers. I hope to avoid this for a long time.

I just ordered a set of 9 (1-extra) Nachi 6203NSE bearings that I ordered from VXB.com for only $4.88 ea. From several accounts, these are about the best replacements available. I think these are the same bearings that come on the metco idlers.

I found it very easy to pop one of the old bearings out with my HF bearing driver kit. I have been wanting to buy a small press anyway, so this just might be my excuse to go pick up the small HF bench-top press for ~$50. Or I might just freeze the bearings and warm up the pulleys and tap them in place with the drivers i have.

upgrade those stamped idlers for better ones unless you want them to explode

That just sounds stupid. Can you point me to an example of where a stock-to-mild cobra had their idler pulleys spontantiously EXPLODE? I mean really!... Literally millions of cars are out there on the road pushing +100k miles with steel idler pulleys, and I have not heard of rampant pulley explosions.

And, its around $175- $275 for a set of 4 pulleys. So to replace all 8 and add an aux tensioner would be $500 to $900. That would be just stupid on completely stock Terminator. Even IF I was going to go spend $500 on some upgrade, that would not be the first place I would start. In that price range, I would start with either a cat-back, or an upper pulley and a custom tune.

Whatever.

 

[highcompression]

VXB is where I order my bearings from also.

To the other remark: it would just be plain foolish to not replace all bearings. I'd do water pump too while it's apart. And, I would highly consider some aftermarket idlers. I have seen the stock idlers shread/explode, it's not pretty. Usually wipes out the P/S resivoir.

 

[caveeagle]

VXB is where I order my bearings from also.

To the other remark: it would just be plain foolish to not replace all bearings. I'd do water pump too while it's apart. And, I would highly consider some aftermarket idlers. I have seen the stock idlers shread/explode, it's not pretty. Usually wipes out the P/S resivoir.

Thanks for the input! Honestly.... I really can't justify the aftermarket idlers. I was thinking about the water pump. Have not heard that much about life expectency of the stock water pump.

 

[highcompression]

I would seriously consider the W/P and upgrading the S/C pulleys and add a snub. It's common 03-04 practice. Unless you want to tear it all back down again, I like to do things once. The above poster is 100% right about the stock idlers exploding. I have first hand witnessed it ... Requires a flatbed or a buddy with a trailer. Something to think about.

 

[highcompression]

Only reason I wouldn't upgrade idlers is if you have stock supercharger pulley, don't take car past 5500rpm, or just a "mature" owner who doesn't abuse his car.

 

[highcompression]

I replaced my water pump @ 100k ... Wasn't leaking, but when pulled off the bearings were wasted. It was a flatbed time bomb. They're cheap, and take 5 min to replace.

 

[caveeagle]

I would seriously consider the W/P and upgrading the S/C pulleys and add a snub. It's common 03-04 practice. Unless you want to tear it all back down again, I like to do things once. The above poster is 100% right about the stock idlers exploding. I have first hand witnessed it ... Requires a flatbed or a buddy with a trailer. Something to think about.

Can you provide some backgroung on the exploding idler pullies?

Are you running a larger crank-pulley?

Higher boost with the extra blower idler?

more stress on the idlers???

I just don't get your point here. I have a completely stock 04 cobra motor. I am the original owner and have put 90k trouble free miles in it. I am replacing the alternator and serp belts, and all of the sudden the wheels are going to fall off if I dont dump $500 in aftermarket upgrades to the stock motor?

Not trying to be disrespectfull, but I just don't get the urgency on a stock motor thats not getting raced.

 

[highcompression]

Next time I'm in the shop I will take pictures of what happens to the stock pulleys, P/S bracket and resivoir ... and whatever else gets wiped out. I understand why you're questioning me, but until you see the carnage that can happen ... I was shocked myself. The idler simply shreads apart (razor sharp). Pretty wild, I HAVE seen it as it sounds like others have too.

... Just my .02

 

[SVTRAT]

That just sounds stupid. Can you point me to an example of where a stock-to-mild cobra had their idler pulleys spontantiously EXPLODE? I mean really!... Literally millions of cars are out there on the road pushing +100k miles with steel idler pulleys, and I have not heard of rampant pulley explosions.

And, its around $175- $275 for a set of 4 pulleys. So to replace all 8 and add an aux tensioner would be $500 to $900. That would be just stupid on completely stock Terminator. Even IF I was going to go spend $500 on some upgrade, that would not be the first place I would start. In that price range, I would start with either a cat-back, or an upper pulley and a custom tune.

Whatever.

Slow down your role their home boy. Before you start calling people's post stupid just because you are cheap, why dont you ask these members here why 95% of them change idler pulleys even on a bone stock terminator.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/terminator-talk-229/736470-im-completely-stumped-help.html

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum.../265069-ooopss-didn-t-think-would-happen.html

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/terminator-archive-208/107432-shredded-belt.html

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...play-but-never-got-enough-playtime-grrrr.html

If you are too lazy to click on the links, i posted a pic of one. These cars are money pits, even bone stock. Stupidity in you, is very strong.
Good luck with your endeavor to find answers to your questions. And search is your best friend, FOOL.

 

[Fox-4]

I would agree with you, accept its soo freakin' involved to get to the inner belt idlers. I hope to avoid this for a long time.

I just ordered a set of 9 (1-extra) Nachi 6203NSE bearings that I ordered from VXB.com for only $4.88 ea. From several accounts, these are about the best replacements available. I think these are the same bearings that come on the metco idlers.

I found it very easy to pop one of the old bearings out with my HF bearing driver kit. I have been wanting to buy a small press anyway, so this just might be my excuse to go pick up the small HF bench-top press for ~$50. Or I might just freeze the bearings and warm up the pulleys and tap them in place with the drivers i have.



That just sounds stupid. Can you point me to an example of where a stock-to-mild cobra had their idler pulleys spontantiously EXPLODE? I mean really!... Literally millions of cars are out there on the road pushing +100k miles with steel idler pulleys, and I have not heard of rampant pulley explosions.

And, its around $175- $275 for a set of 4 pulleys. So to replace all 8 and add an aux tensioner would be $500 to $900. That would be just stupid on completely stock Terminator. Even IF I was going to go spend $500 on some upgrade, that would not be the first place I would start. In that price range, I would start with either a cat-back, or an upper pulley and a custom tune.

Whatever.

My Dad's Cobra blew one up and it a was just a pullied car. The sides of the pulley let go leaving the bearing attached to the motor.

 

[highcompression]

That is EXCATLY what I have seen happen ^^^

 

[SVTRAT]

That is EXCATLY what I have seen happen ^^^

Had that happen to me with a new idler from ford. I said **** it, and coughed up the $ for better quality ones.

 

[caveeagle]

Slow down your role their home boy. Before you start calling people's post stupid .......

Hey, man!! Hold off on the flame! Did not mean to insult anyone. I was just saying it sounded "stupid" that a bone stock car would need all new aftermarket pullies when the originals are not even making noise.

I certainly apologize, whole heartedly if spoke out of turn. (poor choice of words). Eating crow etc!!

I was just looking for a little more context. But, I will respond in kind to your comments.

just because you are cheap,

Because I dare to question the need for mods? Not really that cheap! I have a lot of toys, the cobra is just one of them. My real issue is that My background is a vintage Mustang guy. That taught me a ton of respect for originality and the value of keeping a collectible car mostely stock. (or reversable).

why dont you ask these members here why 95% of them change idler pulleys even on a bone stock terminator.

Honestly, I quessed that most change them out for aesthetics, or maybe performance gains associated with less drag to the belt system.

If you are too lazy to click on the links, i posted a pic of one.

Not lazy at all. frankly, you don't even know me, so you might consider toning it down a bit. BTW, I did click on all your links.

These cars are money pits, even bone stock.

If you say so. I have been driving my car for 90k miles, since new. And aside from a new clutch and a few minor things, this car has been pretty low maintenance. Anything you beat the snot out of, will eventually break.

Stupidity in you, is very strong.

Hey I probably made a poor choice of words, but I was directing it at comment, stating how it 'sounded' to me. You throwing personal jabs is just out of line, and uncalled for. I will just say if you talk to people like this in the real world, it wont take too long for sombody to smack you right in the face. ......just sayn'

[QOUTE]Good luck with your endeavor to find answers to your questions. And search is your best friend, FOOL.[/QUOTE]
My last comment: My question about pulley failures on stock cars is still unanswered. I am pretty sure all the links you posted wer cars with mods. Whipples, pulley mods etc. Not trying to throw fuel on the fire, but there must be something driving these pulley failures. Right?

I have not seen any Ford TSB on this. Is there one?

Even poster HighCompression sugests a stock motor like mine may not need better idlers.

Only reason I wouldn't upgrade idlers is if you have stock supercharger pulley, don't take car past 5500rpm, or just a "mature" owner who doesn't abuse his car.