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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
Road Kill Drive-Thru
01 cobra vs 2000 camaro SS? who do you think would win
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<blockquote data-quote="tt335ci03cobra" data-source="post: 12720734" data-attributes="member: 68944"><p>I've heard of e85 and/or meth injected stock ls mills holding up just fine, one guy was running a comp single 70? rear mounted oil-less setup on a cammed, stock headed, stock internals, c5 ls1 that made 840whp through a blow through maf on stock gaskets/studs, it blew a little white smoke out of the back corner so they threw in arp/better gaskets and kept using stock internals. Not sure how high they went, but also factor it was on his "stingy" dyno (haha, I personally like conservative dyno's, sleeper status!!). He owns unleashed performance in Texas I believe. The threads are on ls1tech. Cool project/awesome shop from what I saw.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying its less safe than a modular. He had a hundred or so dyno pulls, and tons of street miles on his but the key point was tons and tons of tuning, running racegas and being very conservative tune wise while 1st dialing it in, and running e85/methanol (awesome combo by the way). Safety almost always buys dependable reliability.</p><p></p><p>It's sad to say but in the same thread where he was keeping log of how much power his stock longblock (just cammed) ls1 could hold, another ls1tech member had his fbody pump gas single comp stock internal ls1 blow a rear ring at 650?whp even with a stupid safe 10.8 a/f and 13* of timing if my memory is correct. Obviously the heat and low octane of traditional pump gas was the issue in accordance with a single cam trying to orchestrate so much with hypereutonic internals. No shame in that, boost wasn't in the design architecture of the ohv platform back when the ls1 ruled the streets. Now the ls9/lsa's have boost friendlier architecture and I think the new lt variants most definitely will as time progresses and the industry moves that direction. Lt's now have variable valve timing and direct injection, big news for fi guys.</p><p></p><p>Anyways, point being, very safely done, yes most any motor will handle boost for a while, stock hypereutonic or forged, but all along all I've said is a modular will handle boost, even na hypereutonic modulars, much easier than ohv's because the heads are more conducive for boosted applications. It's physics, less stress on singular components, more moving parts, but when's the last time you heard of a 4v just randomly dropping valves or operating like a salary guy at a factory seeing 5:01 on the clock and just leaving? The heads are more complex but very dependable.</p><p></p><p>It's just really hard for one cam and 16 valves to safely orchestrate a symphony of low rpm usable power, out of boost smoothness, mid rpm quick spooling (without dropping a valve during the sudden ramp up) and high rpm boosted load, especially on pump gas without meth. A lot can go wrong. Will it everytime? No. An ls can be built to run strong with a turbo setup but its not nearly as simple/safe as it is with modulars. For traditional pump gas builds, a proper speced turbo to cam/head/spring/rocker/intake combo running forged internals is a great way to buy safety/longevity. If I was building an ohv for boost though, I'd run it like unleashed performance with e85 and methanol, even with everything else I just mentioned. I've seen a lot of ls carnage, even forged strokers, when pump gas is used.</p><p></p><p>Running e85 and or methanol makes it much easier. Even on my car, I plan to run methanol just as a safety net this summer, since I just went return petrol fuel system instead of e85 (can't find e85 up here very easy, like 5 places have it... Sucks). I've got larger comps on the way, and even with trick cool running bb's, I'm going meth for cooler iat's/et al the benefits.</p><p></p><p>I've seen a well installed, rear mount ls2 go boom with 5-6psi here in my hometown. 2 years after the install, but still not a dd or lots of mileage. It had a "safe" tune, maybe it's just the altitude up here, maybe he got shitty gas, or xyz difference but when my buddy's ask me about turboing their ls's, I tell em to read up a lot on ls1tech, turbo forums, talk with builders, and do it very safe/right the first time with meth and/or e85 (track cars, street cars we almost all run petrol) It's not because I don't wanna see them go fast on less cash than I spent, its that I don't wanna be that guy saying "oh just put $1000 of used and junkyard parts at it and it'll run for a long time" only to see it tick tick boom... Safer beats sorry IMO.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tt335ci03cobra, post: 12720734, member: 68944"] I've heard of e85 and/or meth injected stock ls mills holding up just fine, one guy was running a comp single 70? rear mounted oil-less setup on a cammed, stock headed, stock internals, c5 ls1 that made 840whp through a blow through maf on stock gaskets/studs, it blew a little white smoke out of the back corner so they threw in arp/better gaskets and kept using stock internals. Not sure how high they went, but also factor it was on his "stingy" dyno (haha, I personally like conservative dyno's, sleeper status!!). He owns unleashed performance in Texas I believe. The threads are on ls1tech. Cool project/awesome shop from what I saw. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying its less safe than a modular. He had a hundred or so dyno pulls, and tons of street miles on his but the key point was tons and tons of tuning, running racegas and being very conservative tune wise while 1st dialing it in, and running e85/methanol (awesome combo by the way). Safety almost always buys dependable reliability. It's sad to say but in the same thread where he was keeping log of how much power his stock longblock (just cammed) ls1 could hold, another ls1tech member had his fbody pump gas single comp stock internal ls1 blow a rear ring at 650?whp even with a stupid safe 10.8 a/f and 13* of timing if my memory is correct. Obviously the heat and low octane of traditional pump gas was the issue in accordance with a single cam trying to orchestrate so much with hypereutonic internals. No shame in that, boost wasn't in the design architecture of the ohv platform back when the ls1 ruled the streets. Now the ls9/lsa's have boost friendlier architecture and I think the new lt variants most definitely will as time progresses and the industry moves that direction. Lt's now have variable valve timing and direct injection, big news for fi guys. Anyways, point being, very safely done, yes most any motor will handle boost for a while, stock hypereutonic or forged, but all along all I've said is a modular will handle boost, even na hypereutonic modulars, much easier than ohv's because the heads are more conducive for boosted applications. It's physics, less stress on singular components, more moving parts, but when's the last time you heard of a 4v just randomly dropping valves or operating like a salary guy at a factory seeing 5:01 on the clock and just leaving? The heads are more complex but very dependable. It's just really hard for one cam and 16 valves to safely orchestrate a symphony of low rpm usable power, out of boost smoothness, mid rpm quick spooling (without dropping a valve during the sudden ramp up) and high rpm boosted load, especially on pump gas without meth. A lot can go wrong. Will it everytime? No. An ls can be built to run strong with a turbo setup but its not nearly as simple/safe as it is with modulars. For traditional pump gas builds, a proper speced turbo to cam/head/spring/rocker/intake combo running forged internals is a great way to buy safety/longevity. If I was building an ohv for boost though, I'd run it like unleashed performance with e85 and methanol, even with everything else I just mentioned. I've seen a lot of ls carnage, even forged strokers, when pump gas is used. Running e85 and or methanol makes it much easier. Even on my car, I plan to run methanol just as a safety net this summer, since I just went return petrol fuel system instead of e85 (can't find e85 up here very easy, like 5 places have it... Sucks). I've got larger comps on the way, and even with trick cool running bb's, I'm going meth for cooler iat's/et al the benefits. I've seen a well installed, rear mount ls2 go boom with 5-6psi here in my hometown. 2 years after the install, but still not a dd or lots of mileage. It had a "safe" tune, maybe it's just the altitude up here, maybe he got shitty gas, or xyz difference but when my buddy's ask me about turboing their ls's, I tell em to read up a lot on ls1tech, turbo forums, talk with builders, and do it very safe/right the first time with meth and/or e85 (track cars, street cars we almost all run petrol) It's not because I don't wanna see them go fast on less cash than I spent, its that I don't wanna be that guy saying "oh just put $1000 of used and junkyard parts at it and it'll run for a long time" only to see it tick tick boom... Safer beats sorry IMO. [/QUOTE]
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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
Road Kill Drive-Thru
01 cobra vs 2000 camaro SS? who do you think would win
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