School me about flex fuel

So I actually just noticed that a sheetz near me where I get gas most of the time sells flex fuel. Now I did try it in my 2010 F150 because its a buck cheaper. Not sure of its still worth it in my truck because I did loose 4-5mpg. Anyhow I'm not fluent in E85 fuels, I lnow nothing about it. I always thought E85 was E85 and not flex. After reading a bit flex and E are the same. Guess it depends on where your at the % of ethanol you will have. So is it really worth it making my cobra capable of running flex? My fuel pump is compatible, what else would I need to swap to run flex? I know its kind of a stupid question but like I said I have zero knowledge woth E85/flex...

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Yeah you need more e85 than you do regular gas to run some say it requires about 30% more fuel.

Few benefits to running it especially since your boosted. Cooler combustion Temps, knock resistance which means more timing and power.

I've seen people run e85 on stock cobra fuel lines and say they have no issues. However ethanol WILL pull moisture from the rubber lines. It's just a matter of how long they last. They sell all the adapters you can revamp the stock fuel system to run AN lines better suited for e85. It is my opinion and opinion only you can probably get away with it on stock lines for quite a while. Hell I've got an 08 f150 capable of flex fuel and no way in hell ford went high class on the fuel lines.

I'll probably run it someday and my plan was a sumped tank, external pump with an lines to the stock fuel rails.

Something I am curious about though if someone else has experience with. These motors don't like more than 450 wheel, does E change that? I know you can get away with making more power on coyotes for longer with it just not sure on the 4.6.

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flex fuel just means its flexible in the fuel it can run - from the factory it can run regular fuel or ethanol blends up to 85% ethanol.

for the cobra - if you're on the stock computer you would have to upgrade the fuel system to deal with the roughly 30% increase in fuel required for E85 and an E85 tune. You'd have to run the tank down close to E, swap tunes and fill up with E85. E85 is much more resistant to detonation. It's a much cheaper alternative to many other race fuels (when I was looking years ago E85 was around $2/gallon give or take and 100octane or higher fuels were 8-10+/gallon.

E85 will NOT increase the power the motor is capable of holding before it goes boom, you can run more boost and/or timing without it detonating but if a rod or piston is only good to 800hp it doesn't matter which fuel.

I assumed that last point was true. From what some of my Coyote friends say a gen 2 motor will hold up to about 700 on pump and 800 on E. Just curious about it. Good point on the cost of racing fuel because e85 is way cheaper still than a 100 or 110

DSG2003Mach1 said:

flex fuel just means its flexible in the fuel it can run - from the factory it can run regular fuel or ethanol blends up to 85% ethanol.

for the cobra - if you're on the stock computer you would have to upgrade the fuel system to deal with the roughly 30% increase in fuel required for E85 and an E85 tune. You'd have to run the tank down close to E, swap tunes and fill up with E85. E85 is much more resistant to detonation. It's a much cheaper alternative to many other race fuels (when I was looking years ago E85 was around $2/gallon give or take and 100octane or higher fuels were 8-10+/gallon.

E85 will NOT increase the power the motor is capable of holding before it goes boom, you can run more boost and/or timing without it detonating but if a rod or piston is only good to 800hp it doesn't matter which fuel.

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You may not be able to get away with a single E85 tune on pump E85. They are not required to always have 85% ethanol and can vary quite a bit.

Flex-fuel vehicles have a sensor to detect the amount of ethanol in the fuel and adjust timing accordingly.

If you want to be sure you are always getting 85% ethanol you'll need to buy it from the track.

Chip Schweiss said:

You may not be able to get away with a single E85 tune on pump E85. They are not required to always have 85% ethanol and can vary quite a bit.

Flex-fuel vehicles have a sensor to detect the amount of ethanol in the fuel and adjust timing accordingly.

If you want to be sure you are always getting 85% ethanol you'll need to buy it from the track.

Click to expand...

testing is a good idea to see where the range is, there are some FB groups and such around here where people post up results on a regular basis. There are several stations here that are very consistent. Granted, we don't have winter blends to think about

To be full flex capable you'll need to go stand alone. I believe all the aftermarket ECU's use the GM sensor.

IMO it's worth it. But my Cobra isn't my daily. My one buddy makes fun of me because I can't go as far on a tank of E85, but I usually can't hear him because I'm out on him. And I've been in areas that didn't have E85 so it was nice to be able to pull up and fill up with 91 and not have to deal with changing tunes.

01yellercobra said:

To be full flex capable you'll need to go stand alone. I believe all the aftermarket ECU's use the GM sensor.

IMO it's worth it. But my Cobra isn't my daily. My one buddy makes fun of me because I can't go as far on a tank of E85, but I usually can't hear him because I'm out on him. And I've been in areas that didn't have E85 so it was nice to be able to pull up and fill up with 91 and not have to deal with changing tunes.

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this and traction control have made me really think about the mega squirt plug and play and add traction control too but 1) my shit runs pretty well right now 2) tuning support seems to be a lot more niche.

Im not willing to re-wire the car and lose the factory dash at this point

DSG2003Mach1 said:

this and traction control have made me really think about the mega squirt plug and play and add traction control too but 1) my shit runs pretty well right now 2) tuning support seems to be a lot more niche.

Im not willing to re-wire the car and lose the factory dash at this point

Click to expand...

I have the traction control and while it helps, it's not an end all be all. At least in my set up. I can still spin the tires pretty good, but I don't change lanes when it's happening. I think I would need to run drag radials or slicks to take full advantage.

Malcolm can tune it. And there are a few others on the board I'm on that can tune as well. But I think this one is easy enough to learn. And I think it's definitely worth learning as well.

E-85 is a type of fuel
Flex Fuel requires a stand alone and lets you run e-85 or regular gas.

Bud and I had this very discussion a couple weeks ago.







Source:
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtm

Oh, about my redlines above...

A recent study says ethanol does not reduce greenhouse gasses. It increases greenhouse gasses:


sAvE THe pLaNeT!

FWIW, I get about 18mpg on pump 91 cruising at 80mph with the A/C on. With E85 I get 15mpg on a good day. Around town it's about 14mpg for 91 and 10 for E85.

But.... my timing on pump is 13 degrees while for E85 it's 21. So there's a bit of a jump that makes it worth it IMO.

01yellercobra said:

To be full flex capable you'll need to go stand alone. I believe all the aftermarket ECU's use the GM sensor.

IMO it's worth it. But my Cobra isn't my daily. My one buddy makes fun of me because I can't go as far on a tank of E85, but I usually can't hear him because I'm out on him. And I've been in areas that didn't have E85 so it was nice to be able to pull up and fill up with 91 and not have to deal with changing tunes.

Click to expand...

To be truly flex fuel capable I would agree, but there are ways around that. On my Focus ST I have multiple maps that I can toggle through quickly to change from my premium 93 map to my E30 blend map. All done on the stock ECU. You could also do that on the Cobra by switching maps on an SCT flashing device on the stock ECU. Not the most user friendly on the Cobra, but very possible on the stock ECU.

Chip Schweiss said:

You may not be able to get away with a single E85 tune on pump E85. They are not required to always have 85% ethanol and can vary quite a bit.

Flex-fuel vehicles have a sensor to detect the amount of ethanol in the fuel and adjust timing accordingly.

If you want to be sure you are always getting 85% ethanol you'll need to buy it from the track.

Click to expand...

You have the same variation with pump gas 93. Pump gas also contains some content of ethanol and that is also a constantly changing value depending on time of year, gas station, supplier, etc. With E85 being as forgiving as it is I would feel just as safe with the variability in E85 as I would with pump premium.

DaveWertz said:

So I actually just noticed that a sheetz near me where I get gas most of the time sells flex fuel. Now I did try it in my 2010 F150 because its a buck cheaper. Not sure of its still worth it in my truck because I did loose 4-5mpg. Anyhow I'm not fluent in E85 fuels, I lnow nothing about it. I always thought E85 was E85 and not flex. After reading a bit flex and E are the same. Guess it depends on where your at the % of ethanol you will have. So is it really worth it making my cobra capable of running flex? My fuel pump is compatible, what else would I need to swap to run flex? I know its kind of a stupid question but like I said I have zero knowledge woth E85/flex...

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Click to expand...

I think your car would be an excellent candidate for E85 being boosted. The bad thing is you have a 98 so you have the bastard fuel system with the basket inside the tank just like I do I am going to be on E85 NA as I'm having my car tuned in June. I'm running just a drop in Walbro / TI Automotive 255lph pump and LU47 injectors. Rest of the fuel system is all stock. From my calculations I'll be in the low 80's as far as duty cycle for pump and injectors. You'll more than likely need at least a 340lph E85 pump which will require some physical modification to run in the basket as well as some tuning modification to turn off the variable voltage functionality that is on the stock tune (unless you've already had that turned off). You'll more than likely need more injector than what I'm running as well. But fully doable with a pump and injector on your car.

How much research have you done on the e85 NA? I'm curious about it. I know you could throw more timing at it but just didn't know if it was that much of a benefit

5.0calypso93lx said:

I think your car would be an excellent candidate for E85 being boosted. The bad thing is you have a 98 so you have the bastard fuel system with the basket inside the tank just like I do I am going to be on E85 NA as I'm having my car tuned in June. I'm running just a drop in Walbro / TI Automotive 255lph pump and LU47 injectors. Rest of the fuel system is all stock. From my calculations I'll be in the low 80's as far as duty cycle for pump and injectors. You'll more than likely need at least a 340lph E85 pump which will require some physical modification to run in the basket as well as some tuning modification to turn off the variable voltage functionality that is on the stock tune (unless you've already had that turned off). You'll more than likely need more injector than what I'm running as well. But fully doable with a pump and injector on your car.

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boost88 said:

How much research have you done on the e85 NA? I'm curious about it. I know you could throw more timing at it but just didn't know if it was that much of a benefit

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Click to expand...

depends on the vehicle and what's done to it but from what I've seen most NA vehicles that aren't max effort builds don't see a big gain from E85

Be a na 4v fbo and cams. If it could net me around 10hp I'd call it worth it. Swapping lines isn't that bad nowadays with all the adapters and stuff they've got

DSG2003Mach1 said:

depends on the vehicle and what's done to it but from what I've seen most NA vehicles that aren't max effort builds don't see a big gain from E85

Click to expand...

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Lambeau said:

Bud and I had this very discussion a couple weeks ago.

View attachment 1745946

View attachment 1745947

View attachment 1745948

Source:
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtm

Oh, about my redlines above...

A recent study says ethanol does not reduce greenhouse gasses. It increases greenhouse gasses:

Ethanol Is Worse for Climate Than Gasoline, Study Finds

Learn more about a new study that finds that corn-based ethanol is a bigger contributor to global warming than gasoline.

www.treehugger.com

sAvE THe pLaNeT!

View attachment 1745945

Click to expand...

Shhhhhhhhh, let em have to warm fuzziness so they keep supporting it and I get cheap race gas. Win win.

boost88 said:

How much research have you done on the e85 NA? I'm curious about it. I know you could throw more timing at it but just didn't know if it was that much of a benefit

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Click to expand...

I've ran E85 on 4 different platform vehicles for about 7 years now. Just going off of my personal experience. I'm sure it's not a huge gain NA, but 10-15whp can be expected and I've got $200 in a set of injectors and $200 in a fuel pump. I think we've all spent more money for similar gains. E85 is also $3.27 a gallon here in Ohio where 93 is $4.29. With the fuel costs being as high as they are now it's still not quite a savings as you're using roughly 30% more E85 than running 93, but there were plenty of years I was running E85 and it was a significant cost savings over 93.