Man In Wheelchair Brandishing Knife Shot 9 Times

Lambeau

Superfleck Moonbird
Established Member
Malt Liquor Mafia
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
9,696
Location
Rockwood Lodge
Someone else asked if LE gets training dealing with handicap subjects as well.

Answer for my Agency is no and to be honest, Ive never really gone over this scenario in my head before.

Possible that we don’t get training in this by design; use of force is the same.

Another thing this video brings to light is dealing with a seated subject. We are trained to shoot to stop the threat of death or imminent life threatening injury to self or others.

This is typically judged when a standing or advancing subject hits the ground. With a seated subject, that’s going to be a little different.

I know I would’ve been wondering if he was actually handicapped as 9/10 street people I see are faking it. Just saw one today actually.

Some comments were made RE clubbing him in the head or some other mode of force. We get run through many scenarios RE folks with knives and it’s a deadly force encounter, end of story. We just got shown a video of a female officer tazing a subject that was advancing with a knife. He fought through it and got his hands on her and was slashing her. Second officer used his service weapon but he was lucky not to have hit her in my opinion.

The wheelchair def throws a curveball into it.

We also get drilled on how much trouble we can get in if we strike a subject in the head with the baton; only authorized in a deadly force encounter. Absolutely are not trained to grab a 2x4 from the lumber dept and smoke the guy with it or anything.

The one thing they appeared to have was a lot of time. Could they have used a service vehicle to pin the wheelchair? I don’t know. If he gets hurt, you’re in trouble. You might be able to get away with it if ramming him occurred right at the moment where injury/death was imminent to self or others as ramming people is deadly force as well.

Now I’m going to be going over how to handle a bum in a wheelchair with a knife at every stoplight.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app
Thanks for the professional training info. Great insight.
 

scott_0

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2011
Messages
4,337
Location
Pa
story has to be made up, cops only shoot black and brown people, that’s what the media says, so I believe it’s true


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

svtfocus2cobra

Opprimere, Velocitas, Violentia Operandi
Established Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
26,242
Location
Washington
Idk, looks good to me. You don't know the real capabilities of the person in a wheelchair unless they are legit missing their legs. A knife pulled on LE automatically warrants deadly force and going by the video the officer let the guy travel the entire parking lot knowing he had a knife.

I would agree that mace or tazer are viable alternative options, but that officer was alone all the way up to the last second when the man tried to enter the store. Had that officer put away his pistol to pull his tazer or mace and this man wasn't actually disabled then you have an opening for the man to get up and close on the officer before he can react so therefore the option to pull the non-lethals would not have been a smart solution unless back up was present.

I think the officer made the best of his situation by following his training. Had there been back up sooner then alternatives would have been available.
 

quad

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Messages
8,073
Location
Detroit
Handcuffing the dead guy was great theatre, dude was dead before he hit the ground, poor SOB.

Also, nice Office Space reference.
Haha I love that movie! This opening scene really cracks me up. Notice the whole door panel moves when he locks the door! :ROFLMAO:

But there are numerous scenes that are hilarious. Who can forget Milton Waddams!?

 

blk02edge

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,896
Location
BC
H-1589.jpeg
 

Shadow Grey 03

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
7,043
Location
Hilliard, Ohio
tricky situation because as mentioned - how handicapped is he? If you make the assumption he has very limited use of his legs then his ability to charge and maneuver after you with a knife is significantly reduced compared to an able bodied person but how do you bet yours - or someone else's life on that assumption

Cant watch the video at the moment - are there 2 cops - one in front and one behind? The blurb I saw made it out that the officer shot him 9 times in the back
I was just kind of poking fun at people saying "guy was in a wheel chair. They didn't need to do that." Everyone should read Mg0h3s reply. An actual LEO saying it's all the ****ing same. Don't pull a knife and ignore the police when they tell you stop. Love how everyone is saying what should have been done. I guess everyone in here is a police officer now. If you as a citizen don't know to stop and put the weapon down when asked by police, then I guess they should come down on the cop for shooting a retard.
 

C2tuck

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
1,712
Location
North Texas
Should not be a death sentence. IMHO wheelchair guy was a threat but he didn't deserve to be shot (9x) to death for non compliance.

Well technically cops aren’t trained to wound the suspect. Yes 9 rounds is a little excessive, but I’m sure he would still be dead if he only shot him twice.
 

me32

BEASTLY SHELBY GT500 TVS
Moderator
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
18,457
Location
CA,NorCal
Oh just watched the video. Those cops gonna fry. Has to be on the top list of dumbasses. Shoot a fleeing suspect in a a wheel chair in the back. Lol.

Would of been easier to kick him over.
 
Last edited:

me32

BEASTLY SHELBY GT500 TVS
Moderator
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
18,457
Location
CA,NorCal
You missed the part where he served 10 years for 1st degree attempted murder, aggravated assault, and several resisting arrest charges. He had just gotten out of prison when he was arrested transporting illegals and went back to prison in 2019
Must of, just saw what was posted.
 

T.Man

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
1,197
Location
The Desert
Mag dump to stop the threat. Never know if that wheelchair is fake. Especially in the shit hole known as Tucson.

Good shoot by the ex-cop.
 

svtfocus2cobra

Opprimere, Velocitas, Violentia Operandi
Established Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
26,242
Location
Washington
Oh just watched the video. Those cops gonna fry. Has to be on the top list of dumbasses. Shoot a fleeing suspect in a a wheel chair in the back. Lol.

Would of been easier to kick him over.

He wasn't fleeing though. He was ignoring commands and trying to make entrance into a store while brandishing a deadly weapon. That makes him an active aggressor.
 

9397SVTs

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
1,733
Location
AZ
Someone else asked if LE gets training dealing with handicap subjects as well.

Answer for my Agency is no and to be honest, Ive never really gone over this scenario in my head before.

Possible that we don’t get training in this by design; use of force is the same.

Another thing this video brings to light is dealing with a seated subject. We are trained to shoot to stop the threat of death or imminent life threatening injury to self or others.

This is typically judged when a standing or advancing subject hits the ground. With a seated subject, that’s going to be a little different.

I know I would’ve been wondering if he was actually handicapped as 9/10 street people I see are faking it. Just saw one today actually.

Some comments were made RE clubbing him in the head or some other mode of force. We get run through many scenarios RE folks with knives and it’s a deadly force encounter, end of story. We just got shown a video of a female officer tazing a subject that was advancing with a knife. He fought through it and got his hands on her and was slashing her. Second officer used his service weapon but he was lucky not to have hit her in my opinion.

The wheelchair def throws a curveball into it.

We also get drilled on how much trouble we can get in if we strike a subject in the head with the baton; only authorized in a deadly force encounter. Absolutely are not trained to grab a 2x4 from the lumber dept and smoke the guy with it or anything.

The one thing they appeared to have was a lot of time. Could they have used a service vehicle to pin the wheelchair? I don’t know. If he gets hurt, you’re in trouble. You might be able to get away with it if ramming him occurred right at the moment where injury/death was imminent to self or others as ramming people is deadly force as well.

Now I’m going to be going over how to handle a bum in a wheelchair with a knife at every stoplight.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

It is an interesting and unusual situation.

Despite the officers efforts to talk with the guy and get him to comply, he forced a situation where the officer had to act.

He applied deadly force in the defense of others; those being the customers/employees of the store.

The only thing that really doesn't look good is the appearance of a "one more shot for good measure".

The officer was thrown under the bus and I am not looking forward to the Tucson Police Chief running our agency.
 

jvandy50

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
2,268
Location
AR
Maybe if he just shot out the tires?


BTW, sarcasm FWIW
another great option would be to shoot the power wire to the hand controls in half(it runs up the back of the chair)
 

me32

BEASTLY SHELBY GT500 TVS
Moderator
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
18,457
Location
CA,NorCal
He wasn't fleeing though. He was ignoring commands and trying to make entrance into a store while brandishing a deadly weapon. That makes him an active aggressor.
Lol thats considered fleeing. Unfortunately you are incorrect. The wheelchair guy was shot dead in the back. Now as funny as that was. Those officers that shot will lose everything.

Active Aggressor - An individual who is actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined or populated area or attempting to cause harm to as many people as possible
 

MG0h3

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
13,685
Location
El Paso, TX
It is an interesting and unusual situation.

Despite the officers efforts to talk with the guy and get him to comply, he forced a situation where the officer had to act.

He applied deadly force in the defense of others; those being the customers/employees of the store.

The only thing that really doesn't look good is the appearance of a "one more shot for good measure".

The officer was thrown under the bus and I am not looking forward to the Tucson Police Chief running our agency.

Dude I hope we get a wheelchair scenario in LLi or combative training.

I’m going to start with the lowest level of force…making fun of his/her disability.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app
 

MG0h3

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
13,685
Location
El Paso, TX
Lol thats considered fleeing. Unfortunately you are incorrect. The wheelchair guy was shot dead in the back. Now as funny as that was. Those officers that shot will lose everything.

Active Aggressor - An individual who is actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined or populated area or attempting to cause harm to as many people as possible

Wherever you got that is tying that into the whole active shooter term.

Believe it or not, someone squaring up to me with balled fists is assault if I interpret it as such.

Just the same as I don’t have to wait for someone with a gun to shoot at me or someone else before taking action, same applies with a knife. We aren’t supposed to wait for crazy legs to start hacking someone up before shooting him.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top