How Many Do You Want?

James Snover

The Ill-Advised Physics Amplification Co
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
8,863
Location
Cypress
TLDR: Grumman built tough Navy fighter planes.

The whole story:

United States Navy to the aerospace industry, a few decades back:

"We need you to design an airplane that we're going to call the A6. It has to be tough enough to bounce off the ocean at 450 Knots. And the engines can't quit when that happens, and it has to be flyable enough to get the crew back home, unharmed."

Aerospace industry, all but one of them, starts shouting "it can't be done!"

Navy: "Oh, we're not done, yet. Then, it has to also be tough enough that even though all kinds of sensitive electronics and mechanical equipment throughout the fuselage got subject to 450-knot salt-water spray, we're going to forget about it for three years, and then put it back in service. It's going to fly missions in combat. And always bring the crew back home. Or most of the way, anyhow."

This time, the aerospace industry doesn't even bother shouting that it's impossible. Because it's so obviously impossible there is no point in even taking a breath to say how impossible it is.

But over in one corner of the room, an engineer from Grumman quietly, calmly, raises his hand, and asks,

"How many do you want?"

---------------------------------------------------------------------

This was inspired by a story in the recent issue of Smithsonian Aerospace. It detailed a story of an A6 that the maintenance crews and flight crews called "Christine," after Steven King's homicidal car. Because it seemed like she was always trying to kill the crew through all kinds of mishaps and electronic and mechanical failures while in flight. This was in 1988. About a year or so later, she finally died in the air and the crew had to eject, just as they were going to land on a carrier. The crew were unharmed and quickly pulled from the water. This airplane had plagued them for over a year with repeated attempts at trying to kill them, and finally, FINALLY, she was dead, sunk in the ocean, and no one shed a tear.

One of the former flight crew couldn't let the whole thing go. So he started seriously digging in to the airplane's history, and he couldn't believe what he found:

Somewhere around 1985, a crew had "bounced" the plane off the ocean at 450 knots, during a night-time bombing training flight. It was a miracle the aircraft held together, it was a miracle the engines didn't quit, it was a miracle she was still flyable and got the crew back home!

Then, somehow, after seeing that salt water got everywhere it should never be in an aircraft, she didn't get scrapped. Three years later, they put her back in service. And it flew! Not well. She was plagued with problems that stumped the best minds in maintenance. She nearly killed the flight crew a dozen times over. Everyone hated to fly her. No one shed a tear when she died.

But considering she probably should have been scrapped after the original incident; considering salt water had three years to do it's damage to the electronics and mechanicals; what was happening was she was doing everything she could to save the crew, every time it flew after the skip off the waves! She finally got to the point she broke. And the crew still survived!

Nobody built them like Grumman!
 

James Snover

The Ill-Advised Physics Amplification Co
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
8,863
Location
Cypress
I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around "bouncing" a plane off the ocean surface....
I know! It was a night time bombing training run. The crew got all set up, and were already flying very low to the water, which was a parameter of the mission: come in low, under enemy radar coverage, blend into the scatter of the ocean. Going 450 knots, they got a bit off course. In correcting the course and getting back on the planned bomb run, they got a bit low and "felt a sudden deceleration." Instruments show the aircraft instantly lost 50 knots on contact with the water. Imagine a 50mph full stop. Because that was about what that was. They had an external fuel tank; that got ripped right off. If any factor had been different, the angle they hit the water, if they hit a rising wave instead of a descending wave, if it had been a wingtip while they were in the steep bank to get back on the bombing run ... it would have been instant death. As it is, the fact that the entire airplane didn't just immediately shred itself on the impact and sudden loss of speed is a testament to Grumman engineering.
 

01yellercobra

AKA slo984now
Established Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
21,294
Location
Cali
I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around "bouncing" a plane off the ocean surface....
On my first deployment one if the H60's got dunked in the water. Not sure how the pilot didn't notice that. The story is that the crewman in the rear noticed the water around his boots. They immediately landed and as soon as it touched down all the flares deployed.
 

Double"O"

N2S come get some
Established Member
Joined
May 12, 2003
Messages
22,471
Location
PA
The A6 and EA6b were outstanding acft and tough as nails. They had a very good service life.

I worked for a LCDR who ejected from one at wrll north of 400kts (total hydraulic failure in a steep dive)...he never flew again but he did finish his 20...and to quote him " all i remember after the acft departed controlled flight was the wind hitting me and then it was lights out" lol
 
Last edited:

VegasMichael

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
6,508
Location
Empire State
And yoy could tell when was coming to tension just by the sound!

I know i could lol
My first night on the boat when air operations started I was in my rack reading a book and the sound of one taking off scared the crap out of me and I started yelling: "What the f%$# was that!? What the f%$# was that!?" Everyone started laughing and said welcome to life on an aircraft carrier. lol
 

01yellercobra

AKA slo984now
Established Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
21,294
Location
Cali
I worked nights when I was deployed so I was in bed when air ops would start. I usually couldn't fall asleep until the cats started going.

My last shop was in a sponson behind the number 1 cat. Whenever one of the super hornets went into tension everything in the shop would shake and almost fall off the walls.
 

WVTrakPak

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
488
Location
WV
Love my Grumman...trying not to bounce it though!!


IMG_2672 (3).jpg
 

VegasMichael

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
6,508
Location
Empire State
I worked nights when I was deployed so I was in bed when air ops would start. I usually couldn't fall asleep until the cats started going.

My last shop was in a sponson behind the number 1 cat. Whenever one of the super hornets went into tension everything in the shop would shake and almost fall off the walls.

F-14>F-18
 

01yellercobra

AKA slo984now
Established Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
21,294
Location
Cali
My second deployment was 02/03. I think that was the last time the Tomcat squadron we had deployed with F-14's. They were VF-2 Bounty Hunters. I'm sure they're VFA now.
 

James Snover

The Ill-Advised Physics Amplification Co
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
8,863
Location
Cypress
Love my Grumman...trying not to bounce it though!!


View attachment 1708859
a Tiger! Grumman's little speed machine, designed by Jim Bede. She's a beauty! Definitely try to avoid the edges of the air! (For the edges of the air are filled with all manner of things woeful to aircraft. Things like land, water, trees. Buildings. Very large rocks. Avoid the edges of the air!)

Also, probably self evident, but just in case it wasn't: I am TOTALLY jealous of that airplane! You can cruise at at 170Kt in that, can't you? Or is it 180Kt? I hate you!
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top