Converting a RWD muscle car to AWD Hybrid w/ front wheel electric motors?
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Ok. Yes I wonder if they have to charge them between runs? In this video the Tesla does multiple street races and I am guessing he did not charge between runs.
This. You want go fast, or put on a loud show? I always cared more about speed and don't care if anyone sees it, knows about it, or cares. I appreciate the sound of my of my '03 Cobra. But at the same time, all that sound? Is energy not making the wheels go faster. I also hate, from an engineering perspective, how much energy is thrown overboard via the radiator. Gotta have it, won't run for long without it. But it's all energy from your gasoline that is, in the most literal sense, NOT making you go any faster. Airplanes can get around it with careful ducting of the exhaust and radiator cooling exit air to reclaim some forward push from what is otherwise thrown away. But not cars.
Wanna go fast? Or put on a show? That's your choice.
For full disclosure: I've always been into electric RC cars. I've never had any trouble outrunning the guys running gas. It's why they have separate classes for gas and electric.
I want both lol! Go fast and loud! ICE is a lot more inefficient than electric. But it sounds 10x better.
It’s not long ago that trying to get 200HP more from an engine at its limit without forced induction or nitrous would have left you scratching your head with 0 results.
Sasha Anis of MoTeC Canada and Mountain Pass Performance runs us through their Lotus Evora (Blue Lightning) EV conversion project and 700HP Nissan 350Z Hybrid setup which all use a mixture of OEM Tesla, Chevrolet and BMW motor and battery components.
Sasha discusses how the goal for the Blue Lightning project was to have a complete OE feel including stability and traction control built-in using a MoTeC M150EV control unit rather than all the manual switches you often find in a race car. The limitations including software, range, heat and voltage management are touched on along with cost being one of the biggest barriers to entry for motorsport level setups at the moment. Luckily there are some options that MoTeC offer and some other simpler controllers out there already getting the ball rolling with plug and play solutions in the pipeline for the industry also.
On the Hybrid 350Z front we learn about the 500HP All Motor VQ35 and its KERS system that sees up to 200HP extra on tap once more than 80% throttle has been requested. This setup gives the flexibility of going all out for a Time Attack application or having smaller amounts of power on tap for an entire race depending on driver and track demands. A MoTeC GPRP is used for engine and sequential gearbox control with a lot of the custom Blue Lightning firmware handling the electric motor side of the car.
Lastly, we dive into the charging limitations for a KERS system. As the BMW i8 battery has some unknown parameters and is expensive, Sasha explains that it’s a constant balance of managing voltage and heat to ensure batteries are not overcharged when they’re close to full but have as much charge as they can safely when depleted to maximise performance, meaning the scale of charge is always shifting.
M700
The Elaphe™ M700 motor is an extremely compact high-torque in-wheel motor, designed to fit inside a standard 15- or 16-inch rim. With over 700 Nm of peak torque, 75 kW of peak power and 50 kW of continuous power, this liquid-cooled motor is a perfect fit for a wide range of passenger car classes. It’s compatibility with a standard disk or drum brake enables the use of the motor in both 2iWD and 4iWD configurations.
Coupled with Elaphe’s powertrain electronics and HMI, it offers an ideal platform for the next generation of light-weight, efficient and modular electric vehicle powertrain designs.
Direct-drive in-wheel motors - Elaphe
C8 Corvette to Offer Electric All-Wheel-Drive in 2023 or 2024
They speculate that the Corvette eAWD system will have one or two electric motors mounted at the front wheels. The battery pack will likely be located in the base of the frunk. Based on other performance cars that rely on an electric-based all-wheel-drive system, it seems most likely that the C8 will have an electric motor driving each of the front wheels. However, the company could reduce weight by going with a single motor setup. Provided that we are accurate with the setup of the system, there would be no electric power at the rear wheels and no gasoline power at the front wheels. When the gasoline and electric propulsion systems are working in unison, this is almost guaranteed to be the quickest Corvette ever.
They speculate that the Corvette eAWD system will have one or two electric motors mounted at the front wheels. The battery pack will likely be located in the base of the frunk. Based on other performance cars that rely on an electric-based all-wheel-drive system, it seems most likely that the C8 will have an electric motor driving each of the front wheels. However, the company could reduce weight by going with a single motor setup. Provided that we are accurate with the setup of the system, there would be no electric power at the rear wheels and no gasoline power at the front wheels. When the gasoline and electric propulsion systems are working in unison, this is almost guaranteed to be the quickest Corvette ever.
I contacted those companies almost 2 years ago for exactly the same thing you are thinking.
Proteanelectric never replied and Elaphe replied below.
I also a looked at this chinese stuff, but not sure on reliability for the price and Max RPM
for wheel seemed to low, once you get over 110 MPH (27"ish dia tire). At least it has a disk for brakes though and bolt pattern can be picked to match up with rear already. I'm not sure if max RPM applies to active motor, or just motor bits along for the ride (bearing speeds maybe) .
6KW 72V Brushless Electric Car ECar Hub Motor NEW | eBay
My idea was a very small batt pack in the spare spot, and only use the motors from a dig through 30,
maybe 40 MPH (I don't have traction issues ever after that). That way I figured the motors could be much smaller.
I was not that concerned with handling, how much worse could it be than 6-800 lb heavier hellcats (even if
extra unsprung weight) and no one seams to be regularly putting them down for a primarily stoplight drag rig.
No one in the US that I could find seems to be working on it.
Elaphe M1100 In-Wheel Motor
Sep 17, 2019 at 8:47 AM
Elaphe Customer Service <[email protected]>
To: James Oxley <[email protected]>,Elaphe Customer Service <[email protected]>
Dear James,
Thank you for your message and enquiry.
We are still mostly focused on production oriented projects with the industry and that keeps us really busy, but we still planed to supply to individuals later, once we fully commercialize the technology and enter economies of scale. However, if the project is really something special, we are interested to work on such project if the team, the funding scheme and timeline fit to the expectaions on both sides.
If you are interested, please also check out the video of winter testing of two vehicles (SUV and a SEDAN) with our in-wheel motors:
Kind regards,
Aleš – Elaphe Team
Aleš Dobnikar
Elaphe Propulsion Technologies Ltd.
Website: www.in-wheel.com
Proteanelectric never replied and Elaphe replied below.
I also a looked at this chinese stuff, but not sure on reliability for the price and Max RPM
for wheel seemed to low, once you get over 110 MPH (27"ish dia tire). At least it has a disk for brakes though and bolt pattern can be picked to match up with rear already. I'm not sure if max RPM applies to active motor, or just motor bits along for the ride (bearing speeds maybe) .
6KW 72V Brushless Electric Car ECar Hub Motor NEW | eBay
My idea was a very small batt pack in the spare spot, and only use the motors from a dig through 30,
maybe 40 MPH (I don't have traction issues ever after that). That way I figured the motors could be much smaller.
I was not that concerned with handling, how much worse could it be than 6-800 lb heavier hellcats (even if
extra unsprung weight) and no one seams to be regularly putting them down for a primarily stoplight drag rig.
No one in the US that I could find seems to be working on it.
Elaphe M1100 In-Wheel Motor
Sep 17, 2019 at 8:47 AM
Elaphe Customer Service <[email protected]>
To: James Oxley <[email protected]>,Elaphe Customer Service <[email protected]>
Dear James,
Thank you for your message and enquiry.
We are still mostly focused on production oriented projects with the industry and that keeps us really busy, but we still planed to supply to individuals later, once we fully commercialize the technology and enter economies of scale. However, if the project is really something special, we are interested to work on such project if the team, the funding scheme and timeline fit to the expectaions on both sides.
If you are interested, please also check out the video of winter testing of two vehicles (SUV and a SEDAN) with our in-wheel motors:
Kind regards,
Aleš – Elaphe Team
Aleš Dobnikar
Elaphe Propulsion Technologies Ltd.
Website: www.in-wheel.com
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Thanks for the reply. Hopefully something mainstream will appear on the market. These Tesla's are humiliating muscle cars left and right. Dodge, Ford and GM are still stuck with their RWD mindset and it just does not work out well against AWD electric. I would like to see a hybrid gas / electric AWD that can launch better in less than ideal conditions.
This is not pretty:
I think a plug in hybrid RWD might be an interesting sports car compromise, as long as it's done with enthusiasts in mind. Take the mustang, keep the 5.0 (or 5.2, 6.8, etc) and stick a 75ft-lb electric motor between the ICE and the 6M. Perhaps incorporate it into the 6M. Throw in enough batteries for ~40 miles of Power Wheels mode.
Stop and go and commute cruising can be done on electric, while plenty of power and range for having fun, all routed through the 6M to give the driving fan a great experience.
Squeezed out with help from the svtperformance.com mobile app
Stop and go and commute cruising can be done on electric, while plenty of power and range for having fun, all routed through the 6M to give the driving fan a great experience.
Squeezed out with help from the svtperformance.com mobile app
Electric at front wheels and gasoline for rear wheels. Traction is the issue affecting RWD cars. Good drivers and ideal track prep / tires overcome that but it would be nice to start beating Tesla's on any street. Not sure how easy it would be with a hybrid setup though. Tesla clearly did their homework when it comes to 1/4 mile performance. Really looking forward to see what the Tesla Roadster with the Space X runs.
If the motors are at each wheel, then absolutely.
If it's more like the P1 where there's an electric motor bolted to the side of the block and enhances the ICE, then no. P1 doesn't seem to have much of an overheating issue on the track. Chris Harris beat the snot out of one and it didn't have much of an issue.
If someone wanted to really make a difference to ICE cars and improve them via electric, they'd design a bell housing/flywheel that allows you to bolt an electric motor to it.
Also: electric motors in the wheels is a terrible idea from an unsprung weight perspective. And it gives the motor a beating it doesn’t need.
Transmissions, differentials and axles have been elevated to high degree of refinement. Use them, and keep the motor in the body of the vehicle, where it belongs. With variable frequency speed controls, you can even toss the transmission, for ordinary passenger cars.
Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Transmissions, differentials and axles have been elevated to high degree of refinement. Use them, and keep the motor in the body of the vehicle, where it belongs. With variable frequency speed controls, you can even toss the transmission, for ordinary passenger cars.
Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Yep I read about that. The other issue is the wheel motors would be exposed to road debris, water, salt etc. Not so much an issue if the car is only driven in nice weather and on good roads.
But if handling is compromised too much it would not be worth it. Time will tell. I have a feeling something will be developed in a few years to give existing ICE FWD / RWD performance cars better launching capabilities to compete with electric cars.
Heresy Unsprung, Lotus Engineering: Unsprung Weight Doesn't Really Matter Much - The Truth About Cars
Here’s what Steve Williams of Lotus Engineering said:
Whilst it is true to say that the vehicle dynamic performance was degraded by the increase in unsprung mass, the degree to which this was noticeable was small and could be said to have moved the overall dynamic performance of the test vehicle from class leading to mid class. Further more, the understanding gained from this study has led Lotus to believe that the small performance deficit could be largely recovered through design changes to suspension compliance bushings, top mounts, PAS characteristics and damping, all part of a typical new vehicle tuning program.
Add the powerful benefits of active torque control and Lotus’s finding make a strong argument for the vehicle dynamics benefits of hub motors as an EV drivetrain.
And how many micd-class cars has McClaren been content to race? Not a single one, I'd bet. As for having active torque control? You'd still be better off with four motors, mounted inboard, with direct drive CV axles to each wheel. Now you've got the best of both. There is no way those guys do not know this.
It must have been difficult telling your dad that you are gay.
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