Had an idea ...

James Snover

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I've always liked the efficiency of centrifugal blowers. But hated how they have no off-idle power. Love the off-idle power of a roots-type, but hate the inefficiency. I tried for ages to think up a way to make a relatively compact three-speed transmission for a centrifugal blower, but anything reliable was too bulky.

Then I thought: how about an electric drive for a centrifugal blower? Build in a variable-frequency motor controller capable of handling 19.2KW continuously, and a 90-second limit 60KW, and bingo: variable speed drive for a centrifugal blower accomplished!

Best of all, I can tell any enviro-whackos I encounter that my Cobra is a hybrid! Might even be able to get a federal subsidy for it!
 

BOOGIE MAN

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SonicDTR

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Every thing you mentioned has a solution I'm pretty sure.

Small pulley and wastegate.
CVT "trans" on the blower.
High power electric centrifugal supercharger.
 

SonicDTR

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Cleetus did a few videos with the electric blowers, would love to see more legit testing and development of that approach.
 

SonicDTR

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Isn't f1 doing some exotic version of the electric turbo hybrid too?
 

SonicDTR

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Ok, sorry for the multiple posts, much like Jim I have ethanol fueled creativity.

Isn't the valveless air injection technology essentially the same thing too? Inject as much air as you want, not technically supercharging, but same result?
 

SecondhandSnake

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I've always liked the efficiency of centrifugal blowers. But hated how they have no off-idle power. Love the off-idle power of a roots-type, but hate the inefficiency. I tried for ages to think up a way to make a relatively compact three-speed transmission for a centrifugal blower, but anything reliable was too bulky.

Then I thought: how about an electric drive for a centrifugal blower? Build in a variable-frequency motor controller capable of handling 19.2KW continuously, and a 90-second limit 60KW, and bingo: variable speed drive for a centrifugal blower accomplished!

Best of all, I can tell any enviro-whackos I encounter that my Cobra is a hybrid! Might even be able to get a federal subsidy for it!

I think it already exists. They toyed with basically the same concept in F1, I think Mercedes has experimented with it further, as well as a few other European brands. And there's an aftermarket kit they're selling for FT-86s with it, but it's pretty limited.

Procharger kinda went at that with the variable I series

I wonder which would be more feasible, a variable drive or variable geometry the same way they use it on turbochargers. A CVT should be able to easily handle the torque, it would just be a packaging issue.


Personally my next big step I'm going to toy with is adding a bypass to my SC/TT setup. Hog out the current boost bypass to use a giant oval throttle body, use an actuator to open it over a certain boost point, and use an electric pulley clutch to disengage the rotors. With the Megasquirt it could be tuned and controlled when and where I want. Might be clunky when it switches modes, but won't require much in the way of parts and packaging. Get all the torque of a small pulley Eaton down low, then the efficiency of twins up top.
 

James Snover

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The problem with the waste gate approach is two-fold:

1.) it is wasted work. In-efficient. Ideally, you'd like to get every Watt you can to the wheels. The less you waste, the longer you go fast.

2.) the typical centrifugal blower can't approach anything like the speed of a turbo. If you gear it high to get boost off idle, you are rpm limited at the top end. Variable drive us the way to go, and electric is the lightest weight, smallest package to get it. Plus, you can use the motor as an alternator, and also as a starter. For the same weight you get three functions.


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SecondhandSnake

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Plus, you can use the motor as an alternator, and also as a starter. For the same weight you get three functions.

If it's big enough to handle starting, being an alternator, and driving a supercharger with enough of a power storage bank, wouldn't it be better off just being used as a supplemental motor like they do in the "mild hybrid" systems?
 

James Snover

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If it's big enough to handle starting, being an alternator, and driving a supercharger with enough of a power storage bank, wouldn't it be better off just being used as a supplemental motor like they do in the "mild hybrid" systems?

No. That would get 60hp, for 90 seconds, max. On the other hand that same power driving a blower will get you a lot more than that. At least as far as the implementation I’m thinking of.


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SID297

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I've always liked the efficiency of centrifugal blowers. But hated how they have no off-idle power. Love the off-idle power of a roots-type, but hate the inefficiency. I tried for ages to think up a way to make a relatively compact three-speed transmission for a centrifugal blower, but anything reliable was too bulky.

Then I thought: how about an electric drive for a centrifugal blower? Build in a variable-frequency motor controller capable of handling 19.2KW continuously, and a 90-second limit 60KW, and bingo: variable speed drive for a centrifugal blower accomplished!

Best of all, I can tell any enviro-whackos I encounter that my Cobra is a hybrid! Might even be able to get a federal subsidy for it!

Think CVT, all you need is two cones.
 

James Snover

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Think CVT, all you need is two cones.

True. And more space under the hood than you find in most Mustangs.

The other neat thing with electric drive is you can put the controller in the trunk. The only thing that would have to go in the engine bay would be the blower and the motor.


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DSG2003Mach1

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Last time I checked the blowers were almost double cost of a d1.

and heavy. One of the guys at a local mustang shop had one for a while, in some aspects it worked well but overall hard to justify. He's sporting a couple hair dryers now
 

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