When doing cams, what else "while I'm there"

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
So im thinking about some cams, I don't want to hear they aren't worth it blah blah blah. I want the sound and the power to go with them. I'm pushing 24lbs through a gen 4 crusher right now so I'd imagine I'm going to have a decent hp pick up with a custom spec'd set.
So we all know you dont just do cams. My factory reman motor only has about 12k on it so I plan to reuse what I can. Right now my list is cams, springs, oil pump gears and cobra engineering tensioner. What else? Are cam gears needed, I plan to have the cams degreed. Timing chain arms? The engine will most probably be removed for install so I will have access to everything. Im willing to buy whatever is needed but dont want to spend just to spend. I imagine I'll be pushing the limits of the factory longblock if im not already still rebuild everything else when the time comes.
Thanks
 
Last edited:

NateDogg

Terminator
Established Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,577
Location
Wesley Chapel, FL
This is where a the slope gets slippery.. I'm a strong advocate for doing things "while your in there." Here are a list of things I did when I did the cams to my last car.

-DC heads
-Cams/springs/retainers
-All new timing components (ford racing kit is relatively cheap for what it comes with)
-ARP2000 head studs
-Melling OP
-Cobra engineering tensioner
-Adjustable cam gears (Cloyes, although I don't think they are made anymore)
-Powder coat EVERYTHING since its going to be off (if you haven't already)... Timing cover, Valve covers, pulley bridge, miscellaneous brackets, if you have a metco lower set up, powder coat that stuff too!
-EMP water pump
-IW balancer
-Large oil pan
-all NEW gaskets



Who are you going to have spec your cams? Kurgan spec'd a kick ass set up and of course you could go with Todd Warren. Good luck man. I'm still on the fence if I want to go with cams on this current car. I kinda wish I had kept the set I bough from kurgan so I have them on the shelf but I still have so much to do to this one before I start entertaining cams
 

03cobra#2

Hobbyist Of Many Hobbies
Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
1,518
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
So im thinking about some cams, I don't want to hear they aren't worth it blah blah blah. I want the sound and the power to go with them. I'm pushing 24lbs through a gen 4 crusher right now so I'd imagine I'm going to have a decent hp pick up with a custom spec'd set.
So we all know you dont just do cams. My factory reman motor only has about 12k on it so I plan to reuse what I can. Right now my list is cams, springs, oil pump gears and cobra engineering tensioner. What else? Are cam gears needed, I plan to have the cams degreed. Timing chain arms? The engine will most probably be removed for install so I will have access to everything. Im willing to buy whatever is needed but dont want to spend just to spend. I imagine I'll be pushing the limits of the factory longblock if im not already still rebuild everything else when the time comes.
Thanks

Are you pulling the motor or doing them with motor in the car? Also do you plan degreeing them? Have you put much thought into the degreeing process yet?
 

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
Engine is coming out. Yes I will have them degreeded and no I haven't put that much thought into it because I don't plan on doing it.
I know my limits and degreeing these is out of my range. Im sure I could install them but after that I'm out
 

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
This is where a the slope gets slippery.. I'm a strong advocate for doing things "while your in there." Here are a list of things I did when I did the cams to my last car. (So am I, don't want to go too far down)

-DC heads (I have revised 9 thread heads)
-Cams/springs/retainers (already ordered)
-All new timing components (ford racing kit is relatively cheap for what it comes with) (il look into this, my parts have less than 12 on them now)
-ARP2000 head studs (already installed)
-Melling OP (thinking of going with boundry gears with gt500 pump)
-Cobra engineering tensioner (on my list)
-Adjustable cam gears (Cloyes, although I don't think they are made anymore) (spoke with Todd and he said he uses the factory gear and just files the key for adjusting?)
-Powder coat EVERYTHING since its going to be off (if you haven't already)... Timing cover, Valve covers, pulley bridge, miscellaneous brackets, if you have a metco lower set up, powder coat that stuff too! ( most of this is already done, what isn't will be taken care of)
-EMP water pump (never though about this, have to look into it
-IW balancer (another good option)
-Large oil pan (considering this, not sure what brand to go with, still have the stock k-member)
-all NEW gaskets (ofcourse)



Who are you going to have spec your cams?(Todd is cutting them) Kurgan spec'd a kick ass set up and of course you could go with Todd Warren. Good luck man. I'm still on the fence if I want to go with cams on this current car. I kinda wish I had kept the set I bough from kurgan so I have them on the shelf but I still have so much to do to this one before I start entertaining cams
 

Soap

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2001
Messages
1,314
Location
In the garage
Some good advice. I would also do the Accufab secondary chains. And make sure the valve springs are rated for however much lift is in the cams.

--Joe
 

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
I getting the cams and springs from Todd, i have to image they are meant to work together.
I'll look into the secondary chains, haven't heard of that before.
 

shurur

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
3,760
Location
Lutz, FL
I getting the cams and springs from Todd, i have to image they are meant to work together.
I'll look into the secondary chains, haven't heard of that before.

Na svt will take care of you for sure.
Contact him about the rest of the stuff.
I assume you are on his FB page as well.??

Are you doing before and after dynos?
 

shurur

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
3,760
Location
Lutz, FL
The Stewart WP is worth it and not big money.
Todd is not big on the HCM, but I say WTH.
MMR top HCM is more serviceable IMO...oops you have that damn SC...so crack pipe mod for you!!
 

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
I have a hcm already from on3 tied into my coolant crossover delete.
I'll check out the water pump. I can use all the cooling I can get
 

03' White Snake

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
3,792
Location
Mass
Like stated above, Billet Oil Pump Gears, ARP 2000 everything (head studs, Cam Gears, Crank) You will want some type of adjustable cam gears (Cloyes, MMR, TrickFlow ect), again, like above make sure your springs are rated for the lift on the cams, I did new lash adjusters, and valve seals with mine. Depending on lift, you might need to clearance the cam caps, so make sure you check it before sending it off to be degree'd.
 

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
Todd said he doesn't use adjustable cam gears to degree, just files the key on the factory ones?
I can only assume Todd is selling me the correct springs for the cams he is spec'ing.
Thanks for the tip on the cam caps
 

03cobra#2

Hobbyist Of Many Hobbies
Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
1,518
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Todd said he doesn't use adjustable cam gears to degree, just files the key on the factory ones?
I can only assume Todd is selling me the correct springs for the cams he is spec'ing.
Thanks for the tip on the cam caps
Correct Todd reccomends filing the cam keys and using feeler gauge stock to fine tune position. Some people file the key off all together. Supposedly the torque from the cam bolt is enough to keep the cam sprocket / gear from rotating on the cam. I ended up using the current gen Comp Cams adjustable primaries (lucky enough to find a set) and L&M adjustable secondaries. Made asjusting everything pretty easy.
 

03' White Snake

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
3,792
Location
Mass
Correct Todd reccomends filing the cam keys and using feeler gauge stock to fine tune position. Some people file the key off all together. Supposedly the torque from the cam bolt is enough to keep the cam sprocket / gear from rotating on the cam. I ended up using the current gen Comp Cams adjustable primaries (lucky enough to find a set) and L&M adjustable secondaries. Made asjusting everything pretty easy.

I wont mention the builder of my buddies motor that relied on torquing the cam bolts to hold timing on his cams..... but put it this way, there was money swapped and a new motor to keep it quiet. Would have hurt many feelings on the web.

Do not ever rely on just torquing the bolts to hold it. I only believe in positive stops with cam timing.
 

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
I wont mention the builder of my buddies motor that relied on torquing the cam bolts to hold timing on his cams..... but put it this way, there was money swapped and a new motor to keep it quiet. Would have hurt many feelings on the web.

Do not ever rely on just torquing the bolts to hold it. I only believe in positive stops with cam timing.
Ok so then what adjustable cam gears are best to use?
 
Last edited:

03' White Snake

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
3,792
Location
Mass
Ok so then what adjustable cam gears are best to use?

IMO these are the best on the market right now. Really the only replacement for the Cloyes gears. Not cheap, but worth it.

L&M 4V BILLET SECONDARY TIMING GEAR SET (9 WAY ADJUSTABLE)
Ford 4.6 / 5.4 DOHC Billet Adjustable Secondary Camshaft Gears [465400] - $319.99 : Modular Motorsports, Home of the worlds fastest Fords
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51800505

I wish I had 4 of the adjustable gears on my cams. Instead I am running the Cloyes on my intake cams and TF gears on my crank to adjust exhaust cam timing. The crappy part about the TF gears, unless you have your crank keyway cut for a full key, 1 of the gears is barely held on by the wood drift key. The next best thing is to pin the gears or weld them together after the timing has been set. I welded mine because I found out too late or I would have had my crank key way cut at the machine shop.
 

4sdvenom

Never Enough!
Established Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2003
Messages
2,439
Location
Ft. Wayne, IN
If Todd Warren is degreeing your cams (I thought I read that) he is still using a positive stop on the cam gears!

I lucked out last summer and found a full Cloyes set including 4 adjustable secondary gears on eBay for a GT500/Cobra Jet 5.4. Did my homework work on them and the primary chains are the only thing I need to replace to use them.
The crazy thing is I only paid $500 for the whole thing and it was basically double everything except 1 set primary gears and primary chains. Chains are getting replaced anyway!
Needless to say I was beyond excited to find them!

Ken
 
Last edited:

shurur

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
3,760
Location
Lutz, FL
IMO these are the best on the market right now. Really the only replacement for the Cloyes gears. Not cheap, but worth it.

L&M 4V BILLET SECONDARY TIMING GEAR SET (9 WAY ADJUSTABLE)
Ford 4.6 / 5.4 DOHC Billet Adjustable Secondary Camshaft Gears [465400] - $319.99 : Modular Motorsports, Home of the worlds fastest Fords
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51800505

I wish I had 4 of the adjustable gears on my cams. Instead I am running the Cloyes on my intake cams and TF gears on my crank to adjust exhaust cam timing. The crappy part about the TF gears, unless you have your crank keyway cut for a full key, 1 of the gears is barely held on by the wood drift key. The next best thing is to pin the gears or weld them together after the timing has been set. I welded mine because I found out too late or I would have had my crank key way cut at the machine shop.

Thanks for this post!
Someday I plan to do cams and plan to pin my TF crank gears.
It seems the best/cheapest way for the backyard/dubber mechanic..like me.
 

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
I guess I'll go with whatever parts the person who is going to do the install recommends. I cant say I know enough to make the best decision
 

94slowbra1

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
2,779
Location
new orleans
So my cams came in today. I think its going to be cams, cobra engineering tensioner, arp everything and Boundary OPG with gt500 pump. Depending who does the install depends on the cam gears
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top