My Kenne Bell 3.6 Mammoth Inlet adventure (Part 2)

Poisonous West

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In order to completely eliminates the short turn wall air flow disturbance, it would requires an all new CAD design. I started taking TONS of actual measurements with a single reference point (driver side #3 supercharger lock down bolt center point) and transfer all these dimensions into my CAD model to develop the original KB intend throttle body mounting flange locations. Along with all the necessary CAD info from the guy at Sweden to recreates the KB 3.6 supercharger main body in relative position, the result is I have to move the throttle body mounting flange AT LEAST 12mm (along the direction of the flange which is 45 degree) in order to have a 100% straight shoot and shortest distance - absolutely zero obstruction with shortest distance and this is with a minimum of 4mm wall thickness assuming the new inlet manifold design is made out of aluminum. If this newly redesign inlet is made out of engineering material which is a MUCH MUCH MUCH thicker part, it would requires to move at least 15 to 16mm. In addition to that, I would need a MAJOR modification of the driver side fuel rail and a complete overhaul of the KB 3.6 bypass valve plumping system because the lower KB mounting plate needs to machine out to clear the much thicker inlet and then weld shut. Below is a picture shown the original KB throttle body opening vs the newly moved opening looking at TRUE square view from the inlet opening flange.

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The majority of the CAD modeling is not that difficult but very time consuming. Just like the old saying, "If something does not look right, then it is not right". The most difficult portion is to create the front short turn wall with 100% straight shoot and shortest distance. It took me quite a lot of trial and error until finally it looks right. it is kind of like a 4-point wrap smooth surface. But that 4-point smooth internal wrap surface creates lots of issues later. I remember just one other surface took me more than 10 hours to finally getting it look right. I highly dough when Magnuson design the VMP Gen3-R casing, they would put this kind of hours / attention to detail into CAD modeling. I have look at LOTS of pictures and videos of the VMP Gen3-R front short turn inlet including the JokerZ ported Gen3-R inlet and it clearly shown Magnuson did NOT developed this what I call a "4 point warp surface" at the front short turn wall.

Below are some pictures of the section show the front short turn wall from the throttle body mounting flange to the main body inlet. My inlet oval opening is 170 X 80 mm. The green section cut right thru the center of the opening and each section is 10mm apart going upward. Other pictures show my new inlet short turn wall vs. the JokerZ ported Gen3-R with red circled in the concern areas within the ported Gen3-R casing design. I think I got a pretty good idea what the Gen3-R sections would looks like if I do the same thing - 5 sections starting from center moving to the top opening. It's a combination of several factors lead to this result. But I believe "tunnel vision" plays a main factor here.

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With 90% of the CAD modeling completed, I sent the CAD model to have it 3D printed in 1/4 scale in 50% transparency so I can have the actual part in hand and get a feel of it. An actual part in hand can tell precisely what areas need to improve. Below are some pictures of the 3D printed 1/4 scale inlet model.

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With the printed model in hand I made all the necessary CAD changes. One last thing is to clear the after market high flow fuel rail. Trust me, this all new redesign KB 3.6 inlet is so smooth and big especially right above the fuel rail that MOST of the aftermarket fuel rail would have interference issue. Even the OEM stock fuel rail is a little too wide in my case. I currently have the BPS one but pretty much everything other company have very similar design fuel rail EXCEPT one - Aeromotive billet fuel rail P/N 14141. It has the smallest profile and it's used in the factory Cobra Jet car so is good enough. I found a new set of that on Ebay for $100 and bought it. The down size is the brackets that came with it is NOT correct so I have to design and made my own brackets. The BPS fuel rail is rectangle design which interfere my new inlet design. My new inlet design is about 15% more internal volume than the original KB 3.6 Mammoth inlet. The original Mammoth inlet design has a big bottom incline surface for clearing bolt access and the front entrance is pretty much 2 parallel horizontal walls matches the KB throttle body opening height of 80mm. In addition, my inlet design extend rearward by 12mm.

Below are pictures of the final version of my newly redesign KB 3.6 inlet manifold. There is always some more improvements of this design but I need to pick and choose because I would run out of room for the GT500 letters placement. So this is what I end up with. Originally, my first design is to include 2 LONG Rally strips starting at the entrance flat area where the checks flag begins and ends. But I want something different so I pick the "flying checker flag" design.

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I sent this CAD model to 3 different continents to get some quote of 3D print in aluminum. 3D printing in aluminum is NOT cheap especially in this big size. The most common commercial BIG 3D metal printer are the 250 size machine. But in my case it will requires the minimum 450 machine or the larger 500 machine. The biggest one in the market is the 600 machine and they are expensive. Only the BIG international Corporations Like Ford, GM, Toyota owns the 600 machine. I know Ford has at least 2 of those Big 600 metal printing machines at 2 different continents. The custom 3D printed in aluminum intake manifold that Ford Performance made for Ken Block was printed in Ford of Europe and you can checkout that video on Youtube. There is another video and pictures shows a custom double inlet with dual throttle bodies design couple years ago for the KB 4.2 / 4.7. From my CAD measurement, it is at least 570mm wide in one direction which only the 600 metal printing machine can produce. So I don't think that's made out of 1-piece 3D printing process but I could be wrong. Maybe that owner is so rich that $20000 USD for a 3D print 1-piece inlet is POCKET CHANGE FOR HIM. Remember the bigger the machine, the initial investment and the operating cost go up like an elevator.

There are only a few of 3D print shops own the 500 metal printing machines in the entire US but they are too busy. Most other 3D printing shops want the job but their metal printers are not big enough for this job. The shop in Europe would not even bother to quote because they said I will not want to pay for the quote. The final quote from China is they can 3D print it in aluminum because his shop works with another 3D print shop who owns and operates the BIG SIZE 3D metal printer. After some back and forth we finally get the cost down 15% and I agreed to start the actual printing works and wired the funding. It take 13 business day to finish the entire printing process since it is a big part requires lots of aluminum powder. My final design measure 940cc (with TONS of internal hollows to save material) and that's not including the support structure during 3D printing process. That's lots of hours since the quad laser heads are working non-stop for 13 days. The part is still in printing process at this moment. I will post some pictures once I receive it by the end of this month or beginning of December depending of the flight shipment due to the Pandemic.
 

Weather Man

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I'll ask the obvious question, if it pans out, will you middle man some for sale?

Very nice by the way.
 

Poisonous West

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I'll ask the obvious question, if it pans out, will you middle man some for sale?

Very nice by the way.
I'll ask the obvious question, if it pans out, will you middle man some for sale?

Very nice by the way.


The prototype shop actually asked me if I ever want to run a small batch ~ 10 to 20 pieces low volume run since they are specialize in small volume build. The way to keep the cost down is to 3D print a silicon mold and use it for casting and final finish with 5 axis CNC machine (the mold can be re-use more than 20 times). But it will still cost more money than most people willing to pay.

Also, the "GT500" is a registered trade mark own by Ford (confirmed by Shelby America in LV) and the Cobra logo is also own by Ford. So if I am selling this manifold these 2 decorative icons has to be removed.
 

Weather Man

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The prototype shop actually asked me if I ever want to run a small batch ~ 10 to 20 pieces low volume run since they are specialize in small volume build. The way to keep the cost down is to 3D print a silicon mold and use it for casting and final finish with 5 axis CNC machine (the mold can be re-use more than 20 times). But it will still cost more money than most people willing to pay.

Also, the "GT500" is a registered trade mark own by Ford (confirmed by Shelby America in LV) and the Cobra logo is also own by Ford. So if I am selling this manifold these 2 decorative icons has to be removed.

If you decide there is enough interest, just continue the race flag where the cobra and GT500 are. Good luck with your project.
 

Black Cobra '99

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This is great, just what this section need. Have you run any tests/simulations with the new design?
 

Jus Cruisin

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This is great, just what this section need. Have you run any tests/simulations with the new design?
That was what I was thinking. Pretty doesn't mean that the design will actually flow efficiently. I wouldn't go to the expense of building a final part without putting the prototype on a flow bench.
 

Justin@VMP

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It's pretty cool that you designed your own inlet.

As far as the VMP Gen3R goes...a lot of time went into that design, and we had other design and manufacturing considerations. That area was nick-named the "candy cane" and was addressed quite a bit. While the inside turn is important, most of the air will go to the outside, simply because it has to. We did find around 50-100rwhp from the 3R design over the normal 3, I feel about half of that was from magnuson stage 2 DFT port design, and the other half from re-shaping the inlet. Moving the inlet wall farther back over the top of the BPV so the chock point was eliminated was the biggest difference IMO. To move past these constraints and still make the blower a one-piece casting took some creative approaches to the tooling design but we were able to get it done.
 

Poisonous West

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It's pretty cool that you designed your own inlet.

As far as the VMP Gen3R goes...a lot of time went into that design, and we had other design and manufacturing considerations. That area was nick-named the "candy cane" and was addressed quite a bit. While the inside turn is important, most of the air will go to the outside, simply because it has to. We did find around 50-100rwhp from the 3R design over the normal 3, I feel about half of that was from magnuson stage 2 DFT port design, and the other half from re-shaping the inlet. Moving the inlet wall farther back over the top of the BPV so the chock point was eliminated was the biggest difference IMO. To move past these constraints and still make the blower a one-piece casting took some creative approaches to the tooling design but we were able to get it done.

Good to hear from you Justin. Last time you dyno tuned my car I still have your VMP Gen2 blower. Hopefully next year summer when thus pandemic is over I will drive my car with new set up to your place in Florida and meet you at your location.
 

Poisonous West

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That was what I was thinking. Pretty doesn't mean that the design will actually flow efficiently. I wouldn't go to the expense of building a final part without putting the prototype on a flow bench.

That's absolutely correct. But I don't have any access to CFD simulation software. The last time I ran CFD analysis was 20 years ago. The best case is to have a flow bench and test all 3 variants. Another option would be have 3 KB 3.6 blower with all 3 variants dyno numbers.
 

Poisonous West

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Hi just
It's pretty cool that you designed your own inlet.

As far as the VMP Gen3R goes...a lot of time went into that design, and we had other design and manufacturing considerations. That area was nick-named the "candy cane" and was addressed quite a bit. While the inside turn is important, most of the air will go to the outside, simply because it has to. We did find around 50-100rwhp from the 3R design over the normal 3, I feel about half of that was from magnuson stage 2 DFT port design, and the other half from re-shaping the inlet. Moving the inlet wall farther back over the top of the BPV so the chock point was eliminated was the biggest difference IMO. To move past these constraints and still make the blower a one-piece casting took some creative approaches to the tooling design but we were able to get it done.

Hi Justin if you could can you please ask the CAD guys cut some sections similar to what I post. I understand you have some manufacturing constraints when designing your new Gen3-R casing.
 

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