Confused About Intercooler Upgrades

SteveWK said:

I have Van's dual fan heat exchanger, ATI 10%, CIA, off road, and tune. Pretty standard stuff. What I never did install was the Bob's oil separator that has been sitting in my closet for the past 7 years. I want to clean the system out and as long as I have it apart I am going to upgrade.

The problem is I really don't know where to start. Kenne Bell has his Bigun intercooler but that is usually mated with a highly modified lower intake. J2 fabrication has its own set of intercoolers with modified inlet/outlet hose diameters. Fisher Motorsport has some ungodly expensive setup. DOB has it's own setups that seem to be vaporware. I guess VMP is coming out with something?

What has worked for you guys? I am willing to modify the lower intake and upgrade the whole system.

Thanks

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I just about in the same dilemma as you. I decided to start my GT500 mods with the cooling system first. Florida summer is been brutal on the car; the power drops like crazy and even the boost wont even climb past 8 psi on the heat of 1pm.

Leaning to install the following:

• VMP triple pass HE dual fan
• J2 Fab intercooler w/j2 flow mod
• Stuart Component Intercooler Pump
• Heat Exchanger Engine Bay Tank
• Aux Idler Adjustable for flow mod

The Fisher Motorsports is interesting but the price is crazy. I don't know exactly what the kit is all about.

J2 really knows his stuff, he knows things that usually only HVAC designers know. Make sure you also get at least his pump.

Also, take a look at the intercooler to bumper support clearance and see what you think... It's millimeters from the bumper support, meaning only half the intercooler is exposed to air flow. I'm toying with the idea of spacering it back to almost contacting the condenser so the top half will be useful.

SteveWK said:

I have Van's dual fan heat exchanger, ATI 10%, CIA, off road, and tune. Pretty standard stuff. What I never did install was the Bob's oil separator that has been sitting in my closet for the past 7 years. I want to clean the system out and as long as I have it apart I am going to upgrade.

The problem is I really don't know where to start. Kenne Bell has his Bigun intercooler but that is usually mated with a highly modified lower intake. J2 fabrication has its own set of intercoolers with modified inlet/outlet hose diameters. Fisher Motorsport has some ungodly expensive setup. DOB has it's own setups that seem to be vaporware. I guess VMP is coming out with something?

What has worked for you guys? I am willing to modify the lower intake and upgrade the whole system.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Beercules said:

J2 really knows his stuff, he knows things that usually only HVAC designers know. Make sure you also get at least his pump.

Also, take a look at the intercooler to bumper support clearance and see what you think... It's millimeters from the bumper support, meaning only half the intercooler is exposed to air flow. I'm toying with the idea of spacering it back to almost contacting the condenser so the top half will be useful.

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If that is the case, the front bumper bar from JPC should be a good addition. I know is not too safe but I rarely drive the car in the street anyways.

Now I'm looking at Department Of Boost intercooler manifold upgrade and or system. Looks very promising.

Luillo69 said:

Now I'm looking at Department Of Boost intercooler manifold upgrade and or system. Looks very promising.

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That design has been pending for several years, at least 6 if memory serves. Every year or so the ETA is pushed out to a future date, so don't get your hopes up too high for it becoming reality. If you're serious about improving the intercooler system, look at J2 Fabrication's flow mod and their intercooler, or KB's Biggun intercooler and have the lower intake manifold ported. DoB's design for the intercooler appears to put the piping on the rear of the intake manifold which will further complicate installation. J2 claims their intercooler flows 45% more coolant than the stock intercooler with their flow mod. That's pretty bad ass in my book.

You are going to need to swap out the intercooler with something that has bigger tubes.

I have the J2 mod, emp pump and an ice tank. The only decent log I have from the last time at the track my IAT2 went from 90-104* on a full 1/4 mile run. IT was 72* outside that day. That was 50/50 antifreeze mix though since it was still in February and I didnt want to mess with swapping it out or put ice in it. I would venture to guess with ice and 90% water it would get you where you want to be.

sleek98 said:

You are going to need to swap out the intercooler with something that has bigger tubes.

I have the J2 mod, emp pump and an ice tank. The only decent log I have from the last time at the track my IAT2 went from 90-104* on a full 1/4 mile run. IT was 72* outside that day. That was 50/50 antifreeze mix though since it was still in February and I didnt want to mess with swapping it out or put ice in it. I would venture to guess with ice and 90% water it would get you where you want to be.

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Thanks for all the info guys.

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

Lately I haven't been able to spend any time on this project since I was doing other things to the car. My end goal here is to keep IAT2s under control during spirited street driving. From my previous logs, it looks like my setup is good for one highway pull in 3rd. If I immediately follow that with other pulls, IAT2 just goes up and up. It seems like the intercooler can keep up but the water in the system doesn't get cooled by the heat exchanger fast enough. I could verify this knowing the water temps going in and out of the intercooler, but I don't have that option at the moment. I'm pretty sure BiminiLX has a trunk tank with the stock lines going in and out of the intercooler and that seems to work pretty well for him. He did upgrade the intercooler and modify the intake to expose more of the intercooler, but he has about 450 more hp than I do too. At this point I'm thinking trunk tank with a second pump. I was all gung-ho about replacing the stock intercooler but now that it is in the 90's everyday, not so much.

Catmonkey said:

That design has been pending for several years, at least 6 if memory serves. Every year or so the ETA is pushed out to a future date, so don't get your hopes up too high for it becoming reality. If you're serious about improving the intercooler system, look at J2 Fabrication's flow mod and their intercooler, or KB's Biggun intercooler and have the lower intake manifold ported. DoB's design for the intercooler appears to put the piping on the rear of the intake manifold which will further complicate installation. J2 claims their intercooler flows 45% more coolant than the stock intercooler with their flow mod. That's pretty bad ass in my book.

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Look what I found!! Has anybody use this system at all? They claim to reduce intake temp about 100 Degrees, that is crazy even if is only on the blower intake.

https://www.fischermotorsports.com/specialties/ford-mustang-gt500-hot-water-bypass-kit/

https://www.fischermotorsports.com/specialties/ford-mustang-gt500-hot-water-bypass-kit/

I have seen that. I think BadCompany has that kit on his car. Did you see the price? Some guys are unshrouding the intake in the same manner on their own. It increases the intercooler's surface area exposed to the hot air going in. If I ever pull my intake, I'm going to do that mod.

SteveWK said:

I have seen that. I think BadCompany has that kit on his car. Did you see the price? Some guys are unshrouding the intake in the same manner on their own. It increases the intercooler's surface area exposed to the hot air going in. If I ever pull my intake, I'm going to do that mod.

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Stiegemeier does the intake unshrouding I think. The water neck cnc work is the interesting part that has the claim to lower temp by 100 degrees. That and the J2 intercooler mod and pump would be a killer system together.

@Bad Company does have the Fischer modified intake on his car. There may be some more information on that mod in this forum. They also remove the rear coolant crossover that is cast into the rear of the manifold that probably transfers more heat to the intake than the front outlets. They convert the intercooler to a single pass with the single outlet coming out the rear of the intake.

Rear of Fischer modified intake



Stock intake (section milled circled)

Catmonkey said:

@Bad Company does have the Fischer modified intake on his car. There may be some more information on that mod in this forum. They also remove the rear coolant crossover that is cast into the rear of the manifold that probably transfers more heat to the intake than the front outlets. They convert the intercooler to a single pass with the single outlet coming out the rear of the intake.

Rear of Fischer modified intake

View attachment 1645959

Stock intake (section milled circled)

View attachment 1645960

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Nice picture. I spent a good time trying to understand the mod and its benefit. Found a cooling system diagram picture to see where the cold and hot water passage goes through. The modification makes sense but is crazy to have high temp from just connections of water passages.

After looking at how the water travels from the bottom all the way through the heads up into the lower intake it does makes sense the mod works. All that hot water from the block and heads ends up in that intake right before exiting to the radiator for cooling. If that crossover eliminates that and separates the intake from the heads then it should be good improvement. The part I don't know or have found much info is the intercooler modification. Not sure about single vs dual pass mod they do. I understand the J2 Fabrications modification. Is just bigger water supply and larger intercooler surface like the Biggun.

Almost all intercooler bricks are dual pass. Any single pass will have an inlet in the front and an outlet out the back, or vice versa. That complicates hose routing for the OEM. The dual pass intercooler has two chambers, an upper and a lower chamber (note, the diagram below). The intercooler is zoned internally into an upper and a lower chamber between the inlet and outlet. The coolant flows through the bottom half of the intercooler then turns 180 degrees in a cavity to the rear of the intercooler and exits through the upper chamber. In effect the coolant is heated up on the first pass and heated again on the second pass. A single pass just moves coolant in and out, which is likely more efficient. But now you need to route the exiting coolant around the supercharger. There's not an abundance of space to the rear of the engine, and frequently made tighter with a bigger supercharger.

The J2 mod is all about moving more coolant through the intercooler without modifying the intake. They do that by providing larger tubes to the intercooler and can either machine your intercooler to accept those or provide their own. They claim their intercooler outflows a modified stock intercooler by 45% in terms of coolant flow. To get any benefit out of the mod, you need to change the remainder of your intercooler lines and your heat exhanger's inlet and outlet to 1", or 1.25". If it goes through a reservoir, yep that too. It's going to take a much larger pump than used with typical 3/4" intercooler systems to move more coolant. Any i.d. throughout the system that is smaller than .875" will become a restriction. The Stewart pump has proven to be a pump that can move liquids at high rates. Just bolting the EMP pump on a 3/4" is likely to only improve flow rates by 10-20%. Increasing the tubing fron 3/4 to 1" will at at a minimum double the gallons per hour flow rate for your intercooler, which translates to more heat removed from supercharger discharge. The best you can hope for is ambient coolant temps going into the intercooler, unless you use ice somewhere in the system.

Here's J2's replacement tubes next to the factory tubes. The i.d. on the left is .55", left is .87". The area of the larger i.d. is over 2.5 times that of the stock i.d. I reamed my tubes out to a .625" i.d., but it's not earth shattering in terms of gpm improvement.



Location of tubes are #24 in the diagram below.



Here's what you can expect. This video is a Cobra, but the intercooler systems are surprisingly similar. That smaller diameter tube in the first pick is the same part used in the Cobra engine by Ford. I could be mistaken, but I see a very similar piece in the 2020 GT500 intake. Bet you don't see that much turbulence in your reservoir. Stock flow rate might be 5 gpm. Bottom numbers on the flow meter is gpm.


It's only money, right?

Catmonkey said:

Almost all intercooler bricks are dual pass. Any single pass will have an inlet in the front and an outlet out the back, or vice versa. That complicates hose routing for the OEM. The dual pass intercooler has two chambers, an upper and a lower chamber (note, the diagram below). The intercooler is zoned internally into an upper and a lower chamber between the inlet and outlet. The coolant flows through the bottom half of the intercooler then turns 180 degrees in a cavity to the rear of the intercooler and exits through the upper chamber. In effect the coolant is heated up on the first pass and heated again on the second pass. A single pass just moves coolant in and out, which is likely more efficient. But now you need to route the exiting coolant around the supercharger. There's not an abundance of space to the rear of the engine, and frequently made tighter with a bigger supercharger.

The J2 mod is all about moving more coolant through the intercooler without modifying the intake. They do that by providing larger tubes to the intercooler and can either machine your intercooler to accept those or provide their own. They claim their intercooler outflows a modified stock intercooler by 45% in terms of coolant flow. To get any benefit out of the mod, you need to change the remainder of your intercooler lines and your heat exhanger's inlet and outlet to 1", or 1.25". If it goes through a reservoir, yep that too. It's going to take a much larger pump than used with typical 3/4" intercooler systems to move more coolant. Any i.d. throughout the system that is smaller than .875" will become a restriction. The Stewart pump has proven to be a pump that can move liquids at high rates. Just bolting the EMP pump on a 3/4" is likely to only improve flow rates by 10-20%. Increasing the tubing fron 3/4 to 1" will at at a minimum double the gallons per hour flow rate for your intercooler, which translates to more heat removed from supercharger discharge. The best you can hope for is ambient coolant temps going into the intercooler, unless you use ice somewhere in the system.

Here's J2's replacement tubes next to the factory tubes. The i.d. on the left is .55", left is .87". The area of the larger i.d. is over 2.5 times that of the stock i.d. I reamed my tubes out to a .625" i.d., but it's not earth shattering in terms of gpm improvement.

View attachment 1646044

Location of tubes are #24 in the diagram below.

View attachment 1646051

Here's what you can expect. This video is a Cobra, but the intercooler systems are surprisingly similar. That smaller diameter tube in the first pick is the same part used in the Cobra engine by Ford. I could be mistaken, but I see a very similar piece in the 2020 GT500 intake. Bet you don't see that much turbulence in your reservoir. Stock flow rate might be 5 gpm. Bottom numbers on the flow meter is gpm.


It's only money, right?

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I sent an e-mail to Fischer company asking for more detail but haven't received any replies yet. I might end up calling. I just want to know GT500 applications.

Luillo69 said:

I sent an e-mail to Fischer company asking for more detail but haven't received any replies yet. I might end up calling. I just want to know GT500 applications.

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If you don’t mind, post it up when you find something out.

Well there's this.

I just called Fischer Motorsport and he explained 100% every detail and clarified all my questions. The man itself was very in-depth with all the options and the system upgrade. I am now 100% sure of what rout I will go. The money spent in this system looks to be well worth it for 100F decrease in the intake. Shit even for 70F it would be.

@Catmonkey great information. Just the type of information I am looking for.

Luillo69 said:

I just called Fischer Motorsport and he explained 100% every detail and clarified all my questions. The man itself was very in-depth with all the options and the system upgrade. I am now 100% sure of what rout I will go. The money spent in this system looks to be well worth it for 100F decrease in the intake. Shit even for 70F it would be.

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100 F decrease from what? Just curious.

SteveWK said:

100 F decrease from what? Just curious.

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The lower intake. Right below the supercharger. He told me you can have the car idle with the rest of the engine at full temperature and you can rest your hand on the intake/supercharger.