Randy Pobst Testing The Big 3 (HellCat,GT 500,1LE)

AustinSN

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I only bring up the tire, because of all the past complaints about the ZL1 1LE having superior tires on Road Course downplaying how good it is, or the complaints about the demon drag radial/skinny stuff.

4-5 seconds is a longtime on that course but anyone who thinks the redeye would not cut close to that much time going from a Pzero all season to the cup 2s is crazy. But if you were to admit that you would admit that the Redeye on equivalent tire would we very close to the GT500 on the course, much like you say the gt500 on a equivalent tire would be very close to the Demon. hmmm...
The p zeros on the redeye are the summer p zeros.

Also, the Redeye would pick up at least 1.5 seconds with a cup 2, probably more.

P zeros are a stupid tire, they have decent grip in a very narrow window. If they are cold they have less traction than they should, and once they are past their optimal window they get surprisingly slick again. If you can keep them in their window they aren't far off of a MPSS.
 

Sirhc7897

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Haha as someone who had Pzeroes I would love to see this. That tire S-U-C-Ks.

So true.….It's borderline criminal that Dodge equips Hellcats (and even more so Redeyes) from the factory with these tires. A wooden wagon wheel would have more grip....
 

bigja01cobra

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The p zeros on the redeye are the summer p zeros.

Also, the Redeye would pick up at least 1.5 seconds with a cup 2, probably more.

P zeros are a stupid tire, they have decent grip in a very narrow window. If they are cold they have less traction than they should, and once they are past their optimal window they get surprisingly slick again. If you can keep them in their window they aren't far off of a MPSS.

Yeah wasn't sure if they optioned for the summer tire or not. As the all season is standard tire even for the widebody.
 

Voltwings

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Please, can you or the people that you run with show me one example of any car running slower lap times with Cup 2s over P zeroes?

I'll ask you again, how much track experience do you have? Go put sticky R compounds on a car without adjusting the suspension to compensate and come tell me how it drives. You'll pick up some time from the stickier tire actually being able to handle the heat (that's a factor that's independent of overall grip) but it wont be near what you expect it to be, and is not worth the trade off in unpredictability.

This is a very simple concept. A car taking a set in a corner will have X amount of body roll before the tires lose grip and the car starts to either push or oversteer (we're also ignoring bushing deflection and differences in suspension geometry and camber gain loss under compression in this scenario). When you have a sticker tire, that point comes later, so the body rolls MORE before the grip is lost and you end up with "snap" conditions as the momentum suddenly overwhelms the tires (again, ignoring camber gain / loss and the fact that the car is more likely to end up on the outside shoulder of the tire at this point). The same is true for changing directions, you end up with very abrupt, sloppy, and unpredictable handling. And again, going back to my original point, this would be more apparent in a car like the challenger because there is so much weight in question, but you'll find similar behavior even on a miata.

I only made this comment to discredit the post saying adding a sticky tire to the hellcat would have it running in line with the others, because it just wouldn't.
 

bigja01cobra

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Quick google of a guy in a porsche claims he gained 8 seconds on the switch from p zeros to cup 2s, with no other changes. He did have more seat time so that could be most of it. And looking any deeper I am sure you will find that echoed everywhere from anyone who has switched from the p zero to the cup 2s. Is 8 seconds realistic absolutely not but 3-5 is and if they redeye is with 1 second of the gt500 can we really claim it isnt a decent track car or even a one trick pony?

The redeye has better stiffer suspension package maybe better suited to the better tires, no one knows.
 

Voltwings

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Quick google of a guy in a porsche claims he gained 8 seconds on the switch from p zeros to cup 2s, with no other changes. He did have more seat time so that could be most of it. And looking any deeper I am sure you will find that echoed everywhere from anyone who has switched from the p zero to the cup 2s. Is 8 seconds realistic absolutely not but 3-5 is and if they redeye is with 1 second of the gt500 can we really claim it isnt a decent track car or even a one trick pony?

The redeye has better stiffer suspension package maybe better suited to the better tires, no one knows.

Absolutely, and that's the problem: variables. Despite the fact there are numerous differences between a Porsche and a Challenger, and the fact that 8 seconds from a tire change alone is absolutely absurd, hell, even 5 seconds from a tire change alone is absurd, at the end of the day it's all just what if.
Maybe I don't give the Redeye enough credit, but I'm still not confident a tire change alone puts the Challenger in the same league as the other two, but at the end of the day we're all just sitting here bench racing this anyways, so what difference does it make.

If we change gears here to focus on your second point, I still think it would be a one trick pony. I'm trying hard not to get my threads mixed up here, but we saw that despite higher lateral grip on every corner at VIR the C8 Z51 lost to the GT500 due to the crushing straight away speed it could put down. I would venture horsepower is the crutch keeping the Redeye in this race, and at any given track without monster straights it just won't hang, regardless of tire. They said it themselves in the video, they're making the Dodge turn, but it certainly doesn't want to.
 

ZYBORG

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I'll ask you again, how much track experience do you have? Go put sticky R compounds on a car without adjusting the suspension to compensate and come tell me how it drives. You'll pick up some time from the stickier tire actually being able to handle the heat (that's a factor that's independent of overall grip) but it wont be near what you expect it to be, and is not worth the trade off in unpredictability.

This is a very simple concept. A car taking a set in a corner will have X amount of body roll before the tires lose grip and the car starts to either push or oversteer (we're also ignoring bushing deflection and differences in suspension geometry and camber gain loss under compression in this scenario). When you have a sticker tire, that point comes later, so the body rolls MORE before the grip is lost and you end up with "snap" conditions as the momentum suddenly overwhelms the tires (again, ignoring camber gain / loss and the fact that the car is more likely to end up on the outside shoulder of the tire at this point). The same is true for changing directions, you end up with very abrupt, sloppy, and unpredictable handling. And again, going back to my original point, this would be more apparent in a car like the challenger because there is so much weight in question, but you'll find similar behavior even on a miata.

I only made this comment to discredit the post saying adding a sticky tire to the hellcat would have it running in line with the others, because it just wouldn't.
 

ZYBORG

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Gentlemen,

let’s not forget that all his ramblings stem from attempting to justify how a Redeye WOULD NOT see an improvement in performance by switching to Cup2s from the PZeros.
 

Klaus

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if they redeye is with 1 second of the gt500 can we really claim it isnt a decent track car or even a one trick pony?

Ban racers thinks GT500 is too heavy to be a good track car now think pig that is 400 lbs heavier is not. The brakes on the redeye would be molten lava after a single pass regardless of what tire you are running.
 

Voltwings

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Gentlemen,

let’s not forget that all his ramblings stem from attempting to justify how a Redeye WOULD NOT see an improvement in performance by switching to Cup2s from the PZeros.

Where in Texas are you? I host several private track days a year if you're interested in learning something?
 

ZYBORG

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Where in Texas are you? I host several private track days a year if you're interested in learning something?

I am in San Antonio, TX. I will gladly meet you, but am not interested in tracking at this time, nor learning something.

I am interested in finding out whether you truly believe that switching PZeros for Cup2s (on a Redeye), will not result in an improvement in lap times.

You have to be trolling.

that’s a good troll! Lol
 

Voltwings

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I am in San Antonio, TX. I will gladly meet you, but am not interested in tracking at this time, nor learning something.

I am interested in finding out whether you truly believe that switching PZeros for Cup2s (on a Redeye), will not result in an improvement in lap times.

You have to be trolling.

that’s a good troll! Lol

I mean, you can sit here and make memes all day, I'm giving you a genuine opportunity to actually prove to everyone how smart you are. I'm sure SVT has a little crown we can put next to your name or something?
 

ZYBORG

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I mean, you can sit here and make memes all day, I'm giving you a genuine opportunity to actually prove to everyone how smart you are. I'm sure SVT has a little crown we can put next to your name or something?

lol.... I’m not the self proclaimed expert here. The “expert” that is arguing against the Redeye improving its lap time with a simple Cup2 tire upgrade. I think you have that backwards, buddy.
 

bigja01cobra

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Ban racers thinks GT500 is too heavy to be a good track car now think pig that is 400 lbs heavier is not. The brakes on the redeye would be molten lava after a single pass regardless of what tire you are running.

Great point. Wouldn't be a car that isn't devastating on brake and tire life regardless of tire due to sheer weight. I bet the redeye would see some serious heatsoak issues too if it could make it a few laps without cords showing and brakes going away. The gt500 with the massive brakes and from all the reviews seems to be able to lap all day.
 

SSSSSSSSSSSSVT

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Go put sticky R compounds on a car without adjusting the suspension to compensate and come tell me how it drives. You'll pick up some time from the stickier tire

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This guy man, LOL, I now think I have heard it all on the internet. No improvement with Cup 2s, ya ok. Needs to be "tuned" for cup 2s apparently.

Im going to call VMP and see if I can get my car tuned for Cup 2s LOL. Too much body roll LMAO!
 

AlanKeane

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It's just sad that here we are, discussing a GT500 with 760bhp and we're trying to figure out how to go around a track in it. This is just not an ideal track car, even if it can go around a track fast. Sorry. It's not.
 

blk02edge

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This guy man, LOL, I now think I have heard it all on the internet. No improvement with Cup 2s, ya ok. Needs to be "tuned" for cup 2s apparently.

Im going to call VMP and see if I can get my car tuned for Cup 2s LOL. Too much body roll LMAO!
Ive driven two stock cars on a track with shitty all seasons and then slapped R comps on and its comical, I wont say its not faster but its a quick way to make a car drive like shit without adding rate as it leans to the bumps stops and feels like the tires are going to peel off
 

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