Elon Musk is a genius, Trump says

08mojo said:

It depends on the state, but yes, that is mostly correct--some states you basically give it to the power company for free other give you full retail. There is no need to 'save' the power for a year or more.

There are battery systems available (such as the tesla powerwall) that will allow you to store the power and use it during times when the sun is not available. Still, there is absolutely no need to save the power for long periods of time.

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How long can the power walk store electricity? Can it save all the power from the summer and use it during the winter?

What about the times of blackouts from your power company that runs weeks at a time. It would be nice to save all the power from the sun and not rely on the power company for anything.

ON D BIT said:

How long can the power walk store electricity? Can it save all the power from the summer and use it during the winter?

What about the times of blackouts from your power company that runs weeks at a time. It would be nice to save all the power from the sun and not rely on the power company for anything.

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Any battery can store the power until it is used. But, that's not the way to design one of these systems. The right way is to have enough battery storage to get you through the non-solar hours AND to have enough solar to power your home and recharge the batteries each day. You do not want to store the power in the batteries for long periods of time--that's a big waste of money. Batteries are still very expensive, while the solar panels are cheap.

Running independent of the utility for long periods of time is a different ball game altogether. What you're talking about is a stand alone, off-grid system.

And no, no one will store summer power and use it in the winter. That's like telling someone to change the winter air out of their tires as we approach summer.

08mojo said:

Any battery can store the power until it is used. But, that's not the way to design one of these systems. The right way is to have enough battery storage to get you through the non-solar hours AND to have enough solar to power your home and recharge the batteries each day. You do not want to store the power in the batteries for long periods of time--that's a big waste of money. Batteries are still very expensive, while the solar panels are cheap.

Running independent of the utility for long periods of time is a different ball game altogether. What you're talking about is a stand alone, off-grid system.

And no, no one will store summer power and use it in the winter. That's like telling someone to change the winter air out of their tires as we approach summer.

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Then where do you get electricity in the winter?

if I go solar I would not want to be dependent on power companies for any reason or any season. For me the ability to hold and use the the electricity at any time for how long I want is the entire reason to go solar.

The Tesla powerwall can hold power for less than 2 days. Which is why people still would need to sell their power to the electric company during the summer.
Even with 10 power walls you can save or hold power that would last less than 3 weeks. Not very convenient during the winter months.

Elon Musk is a jackass. The fact that so many ppl will fall over themselves to lick his boots is telling.

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ON D BIT said:

Then where do you get electricity in the winter?

if I go solar I would not want to be dependent on power companies for any reason or any season. For me the ability to hold and use the the electricity at any time for how long I want is the entire reason to go solar.

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Do you live in Alaska? Where I live, the sun still shines in the winter. If the sun shines, you make power via solar.

You want an off grid system, it can be done but it's not cheap.

ON D BIT said:

The Tesla powerwall can hold power for less than 2 days. Which is why people still would need to sell their power to the electric company during the summer.
Even with 10 power walls you can save or hold power that would last less than 3 weeks. Not very convenient during the winter months.

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Don't know why you think the electrons escape the battery without use. Think of batteries like the gas tank in your car. Unless the engine is running, the fuel will be there...

On a serious note, I can help you design a system if you're interested.

08mojo said:

Do you live in Alaska? Where I live, the sun still shines in the winter. If the sun shines, you make power via solar.

You want an off grid system, it can be done but it's not cheap.



Don't know why you think the electrons escape the battery without use. Think of batteries like the gas tank in your car. Unless the engine is running, the fuel will be there...

On a serious note, I can help you design a system if you're interested.

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CA. The land of no power for a week. At times of no sun for a week or two.
So when energy is placed in the Tesla power wall and it’s not used, it will be there next week? How about next month?
According to Tesla it will last less than 2 days. Is tesla wrong?

ON D BIT said:

CA. The land of no power for a week. At times of no sun for a week or two.
So when energy is placed in the Tesla power wall and it’s not used, it will be there next week? How about next month?
According to Tesla it will last less than 2 days. Is tesla wrong?

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The powerwall is a battery. It works like all other batteries. Ever used batteries before? I'm really at a loss here...

It stores 13.5kWh of power. If you are relying on the powerwall as your only source of electricity, and you use more than 6.75kWh of electricity per day, then yes it will last less than 2 days. If you are not drawing power from the powerwall, it will be there for you. There is some parasitic loss of power, but it's pretty small/negligible.

If you're wondering, 13.5kWh is not a lot. We are pretty efficient with our power use, have a 2700sqft home and use roughly 20kWh per day in the winter (natural gas for heat). If you want to go off grid, it's expensive. You will need batteries, solar (or wind turbine) and a generator.

08mojo said:

The powerwall is a battery. It works like all other batteries. Ever used batteries before? I'm really at a loss here...

It stores 13.5kWh of power. If you are relying on the powerwall as your only source of electricity, and you use more than 6.75kWh of electricity per day, then yes it will last less than 2 days. If you are not drawing power from the powerwall, it will be there for you. There is some parasitic loss of power, but it's pretty small/negligible.

If you're wondering, 13.5kWh is not a lot. We are pretty efficient with our power use, have a 2700sqft home and use roughly 20kWh per day in the winter (natural gas for heat). If you want to go off grid, it's expensive. You will need batteries, solar (or wind turbine) and a generator.

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On Tesla website they say that it can hold power for less than 2 days. If it’s fully charged and I don’t use any of it will there be energy for me to use in 3 days? How about a week?

ON D BIT said:

On Tesla website they say that it can hold power for less than 2 days. If it’s fully charged and I don’t use any of it will there be energy for me to use in 3 days? How about a week?

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You cant be serious...? Its a battery.... If you don't use it then yes it will be there... It will hold a charge for years.

ON D BIT said:

On Tesla website they say that it can hold power for less than 2 days. If it’s fully charged and I don’t use any of it will there be energy for me to use in 3 days? How about a week?

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blk02edge said:

You cant be serious...? Its a battery.... If you don't use it then yes it will be there... It will hold a charge for years.

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Then why does tesla not say this?

My neighbor who has solar has to sell his energy back to pge because the technology is not available to store and hold all the electricity he collects from the sun.

If what you say is true one would not need a power company to subsidize energy once you have solar.

How many power walls would you recommend for an off the grid system that could last up to a month without direct sunlight with a 2k sqft home?

I would estimate you'd need roughly 1,000 kWh probably somewhere around 50 million dollars worth of batteries

ON D BIT said:

Then why does tesla not say this?

My neighbor who has solar has to sell his energy back to pge because the technology is not available to store and hold all the electricity he collects from the sun.

If what you say is true one would not need a power company to subsidize energy once you have solar.

How many power walls would you recommend for an off the grid system that could last up to a month without direct sunlight with a 2k sqft home?

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Well why would Tesla say it? They are designed to be used as explained by 08mojo. Use power off solar grid in the day and use the power wall at night. If you have so many powerwalls that you never use the charge its a waste.

The power wall is literally just a battery. Nothing more nothing less.

No you wont have any form of finanically relevant form of power storage (battery) that will go for months without a recharge (when you are consuming electricity).

As the tech grows the prices will eventually drop. I know someone who recently spent roughly $12 MILLION on solar and geothermal for his house. All in the name of a lower power bill... To him its a hobby.

Can the power wall or anything hold enough electricity so that one could live off of it in a 2k sqft home for a month?

Can the power wall or 10 hold this type of charge for up to 6 months?

To be totally free from pge with less than $50k invested would be awesome!

Gotta listen to his interview on Joe Rogan! Dude is definitely weird!

ON D BIT said:

Can the power wall or anything hold enough electricity so that one could live off of it in a 2k sqft home for a month?

Can the power wall or 10 hold this type of charge for up to 6 months?

To be totally free from pge with less than $50k invested would be awesome!

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I don't see any reason to need mulitple months of battery only power if you have enough panels

It will never be economically feasible to move 'off the grid'.
The international energy conglomerates will make sure of that, much like when GM bought out all the streetcar lines in the the 40s-50s to ensure the rise of the automobile.

blk02edge said:

I don't see any reason to need mulitple months of battery only power if you have enough panels

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How much solar powered is created when you have a weeks worth of clouds and rain?

Ideally it be nice to use your solar, save your extra(not sell it to the electric company) and use your saved energy when you need it. While being off the power grid.

From what I’ve seen and heard we can’t do this yet.

ON D BIT said:

Can the power wall or anything hold enough electricity so that one could live off of it in a 2k sqft home for a month?

Can the power wall or 10 hold this type of charge for up to 6 months?

To be totally free from pge with less than $50k invested would be awesome!

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You can be totally free from PGE, but it will cost more than $50k. This is NOT the way to design a power system, but for entertainment: How much electricity do you use per month (how many kWh does your bill say you used)? If you want' to completely rely on a tesla powerwal for a month, take your billed kWh and divide it by 13.5. That will tell you the number of powerwalls you will need. But, don't forget that you have to charge those batteries....this is why you do not install a month's worth of batteries. You need to find a balance between stored energy in batteries vs power from solar.

We generally design a system to have enough battery storage to support 2-3 days worth of the building's typical electrical needs. Then, we add enough solar to be able to charge the batteries within one day of good sun. It's a lot more complicated than this, but that's the general rule of thumb.

Again, the powerwall is a battery. Batteries will hold their charge for a long time. If you charge a battery, it will still be charged 6 months from now. Will it still be 100% full in 6 months? No, but it will be very close. I truly don't understand why you think a battery magically loses power...

ON D BIT said:

How much solar powered is created when you have a weeks worth of clouds and rain?

Ideally it be nice to use your solar, save your extra(not sell it to the electric company) and use your saved energy when you need it. While being off the power grid.

From what I’ve seen and heard we can’t do this yet.

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As long as photons are hitting the panels, they will produce some electricity. On very cloudy and rainy days, we typically see ~15% of power being produced by our solar vs a clear, sunny day. The only time we see ZERO solar production is when the solar panels are blanketed under heavy snow.

Here is a system we have in Atlanta. You can see the sunny days (the peaks you see) and you can see the very cloudy and rainy days. Clearly the solar is still producing power:



What you've seen and heard is wrong. I, personally, have designed and installed off-grid residential power systems. It can be done and it has been done a lot, it is NOT cheap.