Gt500 vs hellcat redeye vs zl1 1le edmunds

Voltwings

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Thank God someone else commented on tire sidewall and lateral grip vs straight line grip, I was about to lose my mind. A few items:

1. Both tires are equal as far as straight line grip, but the 4S will launch better because of the sidewall. Road course tires are shit at the drag strip because of the stiff sidewall.
2. Downforce and drag are not the same thing, and they are not proportional. The CFTP will have increased drag compared to the base model, even at low speeds, and even when there is no meaningful downforce.
3. The equation for drag includes an exponent to the second power, so as velocity doubles, drag quadruples. While the rims on the CFTP are lighter, I would argue the drag offsets this benefit.
4. Anyone who understands anything about data understands that 1 data point is worthless. If 1 data point is your gospel I can make a few phone calls and really mess your day up when I have data showing a prius is faster than a GT500.
 

Serpent

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Thank God someone else commented on tire sidewall and lateral grip vs straight line grip, I was about to lose my mind.
Yup, the CFTP has more grip in the front too, so it will slow it down some the faster its going. Evan Smith already said the regular GT500 will be quicker with the softer spring setup too.
 

Voltwings

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Does serp da derp also take a single datapoint as gospel, despite several other widely known facts?
 

ZYBORG

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Here is your facts, cup cake:

0BD5B5F1-10AF-4AF4-994A-A6F9DC951F34.jpeg
8EC95AB3-E7FF-4CC2-A8A0-A40456265E5B.jpeg
00CEFB99-C3C4-439C-8079-4C85A75A91C3.jpeg



I should start charging you for the lesson.
 

Voltwings

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Jesus dude, in the plainest English we can possibly give you: Lateral grip (that's the side to side one) is not the same as the grip measured in a straight line such as launching. That data is meaningless for this discussion, cupcake.

Also, what factors go into the arbitrary "dry grip" charts you've posted above? You may not realize you are grasping at straws to have "Fact" back what is in fact opinion, but the rest of us do.

You can start charging for lessons in putting on blinders lol, because that's about the only thing you know more about than a few of the people participating in this discussion.
 

ZYBORG

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Austin, you are always act like you know a lot.... let’s test that knowledge.

which car is faster CFTP 500 or regular 500?
 

AustinSN

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Austin, you are always act like you know a lot.... (one too many ellipsis, 4 dots suggests end of conversation, 3 is for conversation still going) let’s test that knowledge.

which (should be capitalized) car is faster CFTP 500 or regular 500?

-3, See me after class.

I wasn't sure if you wanted me to grade that or not. Apparently, I've got knowledge to spread. I keed, I keed.

This is probably mostly down to the tire.

I don't have any experience with the 4S, I imagine they will perform similar to the MPSS, but just a tiny bit better so I'll compare that.

In this situation the biggest benefit of the straight line acceleration for the CFTP is going to be the lighter wheels. I've never launched a car on cups but the last time I was on track with a set of cups I realized they do indeed require a bit of heat for them to start working. I believe these two will be so insanely close that it will be hard to tell which one is actually faster. I'll admit I'm a bit reserved with what manufacturers claim so I haven't really taken a side.

On a cold surface with a tire you haven't been able to heat up, the 4S will have the advantage, and a big one. The 4S is likely a really well rounded tire, but hot cups do have great grip. I also don't think a cup 2 will take particularly well to a burnout to heat it up (there is a difference between heating a tire from a hard smokey burnout vs warming one up with friction).

If you came off the track after a warm up lap on cups and 4S tires, and immediately went to do a launch on a warm-unprepped surface, I personally think the cups would bite better and give the edge to the CFTP. But we will have to wait to find out.

I can understand your thinking between a GT350R and GT350 comparo, but the R had a shorter tire than the 350 which does help acceleration, especially with a car as hard to launch as that one. They also came without a resonator, Pericak said the R should dyno about 5hp more, again I'm a bit standoff-ish of the claim but I never actually looked around to find out if it was true.

TL;DR: I'm not entirely confident either way, I would like to be there for a test myself.
 

gofast15

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Both tires are equal as far as straight line grip, but the 4S will launch better because of the sidewall. Road course tires are shit at the drag strip because of the stiff sidewall.

No , sidewall has very little to do with traction on a street tire , drag radials or slicks yes . Both tires have such of hard sidewall that the sidewall won't make any difference. Tire compound will play a bigger roll in traction then the sidewall . Road course tires are shit at drag strip but they are still better then regular street compound tires.
I tested MPSS , PS4 and R888R on the street and drag strip plenty times. R888R outlaunched MPSS and PS4s but a large margin on both surfaces [street and drag strip]
 
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ZYBORG

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I wasn't sure if you wanted me to grade that or not. Apparently, I've got knowledge to spread. I keed, I keed.

This is probably mostly down to the tire.

I don't have any experience with the 4S, I imagine they will perform similar to the MPSS, but just a tiny bit better so I'll compare that.

In this situation the biggest benefit of the straight line acceleration for the CFTP is going to be the lighter wheels. I've never launched a car on cups but the last time I was on track with a set of cups I realized they do indeed require a bit of heat for them to start working. I believe these two will be so insanely close that it will be hard to tell which one is actually faster. I'll admit I'm a bit reserved with what manufacturers claim so I haven't really taken a side.

On a cold surface with a tire you haven't been able to heat up, the 4S will have the advantage, and a big one. The 4S is likely a really well rounded tire, but hot cups do have great grip. I also don't think a cup 2 will take particularly well to a burnout to heat it up (there is a difference between heating a tire from a hard smokey burnout vs warming one up with friction).

If you came off the track after a warm up lap on cups and 4S tires, and immediately went to do a launch on a warm-unprepped surface, I personally think the cups would bite better and give the edge to the CFTP. But we will have to wait to find out.

I can understand your thinking between a GT350R and GT350 comparo, but the R had a shorter tire than the 350 which does help acceleration, especially with a car as hard to launch as that one. They also came without a resonator, Pericak said the R should dyno about 5hp more, again I'm a bit standoff-ish of the claim but I never actually looked around to find out if it was true.

TL;DR: I'm not entirely confident either way, I would like to be there for a test myself.

I am disappoint son.... you should already know.

CFTP is the faster accelerating car in the 1/4. This is not debatable.

Mark my words.
 

Voltwings

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No , sidewall has very little to do with traction on a street tire , drag radials or slicks yes . Both tires have such of hard sidewall that the sidewall won't make any difference. Tire compound will play a bigger roll in traction then the sidewall . Road course tires are shit at drag strip buy still better then regular street compound tires.
I tested MPSS , PS4 and R888R on the street and drag strip plenty times. R888R outlaunched MPSS and PS4s but a large margin on both surfaces [street and drag strip]

Since my experience is 95% road course and maybe 5% drag strip, that is where most of my tire expertise lies. I would challenge the claim that most street tires (and we're talking at least remotely sporty tires) have a stiff sidewall... granted, in the context I am talking vs the context you are talking, it's apples to oranges so maybe it makes no difference on a drag strip. Granted, I don't know of anyone running out and getting NT01s saying they're a good drag strip tire...
 

kcobra

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Redeye on all season shit tires vs. $20k carbon fiber wheels and triple R compound tires DCT 500. Lol.

notice how the Redeye was losing to the ZL1 1LE in a straight line (which should never happen).


FYI. Wide body Redeye is slower than standard body Redeye. CFTP 500 is faster than regular 500.
Did you notice it was in the 40's outside? Have you ever driven any triple R compound in that weather? Probably not. It is literally like being on a surface covered in butter.
 

tt335ci03cobra

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Cup2 has potential to grip better on a prepped surface in warm conditions were the compound can glue.

It will just wheelhop like a son of a bitch on a cold dusty road.

Modern hyper muscle suspensions are quite refined and minimize or eliminate most wheel hop, but those cold dusty conditions on a stiff sticky tire would kill halfshafts.
 

Deceptive

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Did you notice it was in the 40's outside? Have you ever driven any triple R compound in that weather? Probably not. It is literally like being on a surface covered in butter.

Cryborg is a master driver on Forza. Legendary status.


No IT equipment was stolen in the making of this comment.
 

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