EPA to Start Aggressively Enforcing Emission Defeat Devices

Sirhc7897

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GTSpartan

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A dilemma that we’ll need to think about as well, is the OEM’s move to more integrated electrical & control systems, and well as over-the-air updates. An unnoticeable push update to your car could theoretically overwrite any foreign code/parameters, and really screw you. Sure, you could get creative and try to block such updates, but they could make it difficult enough, that virtually no one would do it. Imagine you car refusing to run because you don’t have software version 1.4.7?

Tesla already widely uses it, along with a few other manufacturers. The new Vette incorporates it, along with all new GM vehicles. It doesn’t appear all that intrusive right now, but I could easily envision a day when the OEM’s are under all kinds of pressure from the gov’t/EPA, that they will essentially be forced to implement something like this.
 

Deceptive

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The best legal recourse I could see is to file suit for discrimination, in a way. Research all industries or corporations that get breaks or exemptions, prove they do more damage and that the laws are unfair for the industry or segment.


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Corbic

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Anyone else feel like this is another battle against masculinity?

Who is behind this regulation? Let’s annoy them.
Hey, Walmart needs cheap subsidized TVs from China God damn it!!

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GTSpartan

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The best legal recourse I could see is to file suit for discrimination, in a way. Research all industries or corporations that get breaks or exemptions, prove they do more damage and that the laws are unfair for the industry or segment.


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Good luck with that. Unfortunately the court of public opinion has gone completely bat shit crazy over anything that could possible hurt the environment. Knowingly defeating an emissions control device and causing global warming is just a bad headline.
 

Makobra

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A dilemma that we’ll need to think about as well, is the OEM’s move to more integrated electrical & control systems, and well as over-the-air updates. An unnoticeable push update to your car could theoretically overwrite any foreign code/parameters, and really screw you. Sure, you could get creative and try to block such updates, but they could make it difficult enough, that virtually no one would do it. Imagine you car refusing to run because you don’t have software version 1.4.7?

Tesla already widely uses it, along with a few other manufacturers. The new Vette incorporates it, along with all new GM vehicles. It doesn’t appear all that intrusive right now, but I could easily envision a day when the OEM’s are under all kinds of pressure from the gov’t/EPA, that they will essentially be forced to implement something like this.

Hardware will never refuse to run if it doesn't get an update. Only the opposite is true. It would be easy as all hell to defeat that system.
 

Twisted2v

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The best legal recourse I could see is to file suit for discrimination, in a way. Research all industries or corporations that get breaks or exemptions, prove they do more damage and that the laws are unfair for the industry or segment.


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Right, it’s like they’re rushing to extinguish a burning leaf when the whole town is ablaze.

There’s a YT video of this guy who records being pulled over and “harassed” by police. He explains that he’s driving this Lamborghini to ship it overseas, and has an EPA exemption.
 

HillbillyHotRod

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So OEM sends out a update to car computer serial number xyz. Xyz does not accept the update, what’s to stop OEM from sending a stop signal? If that can be blocked they know who has the car with that computer so unkie bunkie comes knocking to see what is up. 99% of people will not be messing with car computer systems so would not be difficult find.
 

BOOGIE MAN

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So OEM sends out a update to car computer serial number xyz. Xyz does not accept the update, what’s to stop OEM from sending a stop signal? If that can be blocked they know who has the car with that computer so unkie bunkie comes knocking to see what is up. 99% of people will not be messing with car computer systems so would not be difficult find.
OEM is forced to notify DMV who puts a hold on your registration....

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coposrv

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I hope going forward moving to a stand alone system and passing inspection is something we could do. In mass after 16 years it’s safety only regardless of a car has an obd2 system. I’d like to talk to a local state rep and see what she thinks. I’ve done a lot of work for her over the years and it’s something we talked about briefly.


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96gt02

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Yet another win for SCT, there are the only tuning company that is already past all this mess
 

GTSpartan

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Hardware will never refuse to run if it doesn't get an update. Only the opposite is true. It would be easy as all hell to defeat that system.

See below

OEM is forced to notify DMV who puts a hold on your registration....


So OEM sends out a update to car computer serial number xyz. Xyz does not accept the update, what’s to stop OEM from sending a stop signal? If that can be blocked they know who has the car with that computer so unkie bunkie comes knocking to see what is up. 99% of people will not be messing with car computer systems so would not be difficult find.

Bingo. They could make it so difficult and painful, that it would essentially kill the entire industry.
 

Weather Man

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I bought a stand alone AEM, but if the feds really hammer the SCT's of the world, will the small shops be able to stay in business?
 

DSG2003Mach1

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as far as the OTA updates you'd probably be stuck running an aftermarket pcm in parallel (Assuming you can get one)
 

RedVenom48

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This is one step closer to banning any car that was originally equipped with emissions from being converted to an off highway racing car.
 

P49Y-CY

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Weird because it seems like the Trump administration has been rolling back many of the federal treehugger policies and regulations. Why crack down on this.

It's like the one effing hobby I like, they gotta criminalize damnit!
 

Makobra

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See below

Bingo. They could make it so difficult and painful, that it would essentially kill the entire industry.

Here's the first set of problems off the top of my head:
1. who's going to pay for the connection?
2. who's going to guarantee the connection?
3. HOW can you garuntee a connection?
4. how can you legally mandate that the customer must update?
5. the only way to shut down a thing without being able to talk to that thing is to build INTO the thing a self destruct/shutdown protocol on a timer

1-3 is defeated easily because that dog won't hunt. and when i say won't i mean WON'T. its untenable.
4 is a big legal no. we own our property. period end of discussion.
5 is the only way to reliably handle this which can not only be undone programmatically but would spur the ire of the average consumer hereto unknown

you guys are talking about what is possible technologically in theory which in no way translates to the real world.

if your truck lives in a metal skinned garage or is in a rural area the problems of the proposed ideas become crystal clear immediately.

no need to freak out. not only are tuners not going away but it will only get easier to tune cars. mark my words.

but hey we're talkin software and I'm just a senior software developer.
 

Sirhc7897

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I don't know. Seems like they're already well on their way as it is....

On my 2019 Redeye.....every single time the tire pressure system warning light goes on when I slap on the drag radials to go to the track (no TPMS installed on them) I get an email from Dodge literally within minutes of the malfunction light going off. When I was on the way to the tuner with the off road mid pipes already installed I got an email within minutes of the check engine light coming on...

I pay for no service or connectivity....It did some kind of infotainment update the other day whether I wanted it to or not...

Really doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to build in some type of rolling code that, unless it gets an updated authorization by a specified time, to simply shut down....much like some software platforms do these days...
 

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