Adjusting to Civilian Life

ssj4sadie

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You know what. You’re right, I have no idea.

I hope you get whatever it is figured out so you can better yourself.

I should not talk shit and apologize to any veterans that took offense.


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Nah, the military is not some protected class that automatically deserves respect or adoration. I do get where mystic and snake are coming from (dependent wives that “wear” their husbands rank are particularly annoying). However, you don’t require military experience to have an opinion (talk shit to) on how arrogant military/veterans can be.
 

mysticsvt

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Well you're the one who asked and then disappeared when you started getting real answers and opinions but then showed back up when someone said something nice. And you wanted compassion from other military members? Since you didn't learn anything from your 20 years in maybe you already fully transitioned to being a civilian because you should know better than to ask other members for compassionate replies. No one here is going to hold your hand with what you are dealing with. You'll get straight, no bullshit answers from both the service members and SVTP members in general.
You speak as if 20 years should have taught me to be a Civilian, lol. It's pretty much just the opposite. I mentioned already I took everything in that was said regardless of how or who said it. I don't need anyone to hold my hand, I only asked for input on how others dealt with going back to the other side. 90% of the comments did just that, maybe you read them..not sure. If I upset your feelings because I was "condescending"...I'm so sorry. I can honestly say that was not my intent. At this point...I don't give a shit if I hurt your feelings. You obviously don't give a shit about mine. Cards are on the table...hope we're done with this.
 

gimmie11s

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Nah, the military is not some protected class that automatically deserves respect or adoration. I do get where mystic and snake are coming from (dependent wives that “wear” their husbands rank are particularly annoying). However, you don’t require military experience to have an opinion (talk shit to) on how arrogant military/veterans can be.

Agree completely.
 

nickf2005

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Nah, the military is not some protected class that automatically deserves respect or adoration. I do get where mystic and snake are coming from (dependent wives that “wear” their husbands rank are particularly annoying). However, you don’t require military experience to have an opinion (talk shit to) on how arrogant military/veterans can be.
I mentioned a buddy in a post before who enlisted right out of high school... He was not imaginary, but did do some security detail and then I think he served as a mechanic for a couple tours oversees. Giving a bit of a background of his perspective.

I had a conversation with him when I was nearing graduation. It was 2009 and the market sucked, in general, but even worse for engineering and manufacturing. I had very few, if any, job prospects and I was 3 months from being thrown to the wolves. I mentioned to him that I was contemplating going the military route and possibly trying to become an officer.

He had 0 positive things to say to me. His officers weren't in his circle so they were, essentially, a bunch of numnuts to him. He couldn't separate himself from his military self, and constructively give me advice on my bleak future. That's just one of my examples I have with him.

I love the guy and he's "back to normal" now that he's been out 8 years or so, has a family, had a couple different civilian jobs, etc. The guy I talked to for 5 years while he was in was not the same lifelong friend that left after HS.

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mysticsvt

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Nah, the military is not some protected class that automatically deserves respect or adoration. I do get where mystic and snake are coming from (dependent wives that “wear” their husbands rank are particularly annoying). However, you don’t require military experience to have an opinion (talk shit to) on how arrogant military/veterans can be.

That's your opinion and that's fine but I disagree with that as I respect them immensely. Do they deserve adoration...negative. And no you don't have to have military service to comment even though it would be a less informative comment giving the question I gave. Yet many have done so and not been harsh at the same time. And I hate wives that wear their husbands rank....def an issue.
 

Coiled03

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Could've prevented a whole lot of issues in this thread by just adding "civilian opinions not wanted" in the title.

Pretty clear the majority of service members in here think civilians are "less" than them because they didn't choose to serve. Good luck looking down your nose at your colleagues the rest of your life.
 

Makobra

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Yeah because I would put all that out there for the world to see to make me feel warm inside....I was genuinely asking how other handled the transition. Some of you guys could have had a little more compassion but that's on you.

"the transition" is a weird thing to say. dude, look you've been told the same thing like nine different ways from a variety of dispositions and levels of empathy. you need to quit acting like everybody else in the world doesn't go through transitions.

it sounds like you built your entire identity around your job and now you can't go to work anymore and have no idea what to do with yourself. i think maybe you need to consider the possibility that you maybe made a life choice you regret or maybe along the way made a few and you wish you would've invested more in other areas. areas that could have bore fruit by now.

what I've noticed is that the guys willing to give the most compassion are dudes that have never been shot at because the guys who did duty that required them to be in harms way HAD to grow up REAL fast or die. we all do this thing where we envision things to be more glorious when we haven't gone through them. we do it with cars and then we own it for a little bit and that dream car turns into another project or thing to trade in.

maybe this transition being such a huge problem for you is because you went a couple decades without any. then bam, your entire world is gone, and now you're trying to figure out what to do with all this time on you hands. in the time you spent in the military I grew up, started a career, was laid off, changed careers, got married, had two kids, bought two houses, and had more adventures than i could count all while having to figure out how to do all of that because nobody was there to give me orders.

you had a job you liked. now you don't have that job. its time to move on. your life is great. figure out how to live it. or don't.
 

mysticsvt

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"the transition" is a weird thing to say. dude, look you've been told the same thing like nine different ways from a variety of dispositions and levels of empathy. you need to quit acting like everybody else in the world doesn't go through transitions.

it sounds like you built your entire identity around your job and now you can't go to work anymore and have no idea what to do with yourself. i think maybe you need to consider the possibility that you maybe made a life choice you regret or maybe along the way made a few and you wish you would've invested more in other areas. areas that could have bore fruit by now.

what I've noticed is that the guys willing to give the most compassion are dudes that have never been shot at because the guys who did duty that required them to be in harms way HAD to grow up REAL fast or die. we all do this thing where we envision things to be more glorious when we haven't gone through them. we do it with cars and then we own it for a little bit and that dream car turns into another project or thing to trade in.

maybe this transition being such a huge problem for you is because you went a couple decades without any. then bam, your entire world is gone, and now you're trying to figure out what to do with all this time on you hands. in the time you spent in the military I grew up, started a career, was laid off, changed careers, got married, had two kids, bought two houses, and had more adventures than i could count all while having to figure out how to do all of that because nobody was there to give me orders.

you had a job you liked. now you don't have that job. its time to move on. your life is great. figure out how to live it. or don't.
100% Spot On, and thank you
 

svtfocus2cobra

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You speak as if 20 years should have taught me to be a Civilian, lol. It's pretty much just the opposite. I mentioned already I took everything in that was said regardless of how or who said it. I don't need anyone to hold my hand, I only asked for input on how others dealt with going back to the other side. 90% of the comments did just that, maybe you read them..not sure. If I upset your feelings because I was "condescending"...I'm so sorry. I can honestly say that was not my intent. At this point...I don't give a shit if I hurt your feelings. You obviously don't give a shit about mine. Cards are on the table...hope we're done with this.

You've been out longer than I have. You should have adjusted unless you have some deep rooted issues, like with anger as you mentioned, which by your post seems like a possibility. You sound prone to going off because of things you see in other people that you dont like rather than to just let idiots be idiots. You likely used to snatch up junior enlisted for every little thing they did like every senior enlisted is expected to do but instead you let that become a part of you. That is what I deduct from your post and you even asked for the brutal honesty which you got.

Why would my feelings be hurt? What do I care except to give my honest opinion of what I saw in your post and my experience with senior enlisted and their often joked about jaded attitudes and alcoholism because of years of bulshit that they have to put up with? Some of the things you mentioned about yourself make it sound like you could have some of those tendencies but only you know. Whatever we all say here is for you to take and honestly apply to yourself if you think that fits you. Sometimes it just takes someone else to point out the type of person you have become in order for you to honestly look at yourself and recognize it.
 

ssj4sadie

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That's your opinion and that's fine but I disagree with that as I respect them immensely. Do they deserve adoration...negative. And no you don't have to have military service to comment even though it would be a less informative comment giving the question I gave. Yet many have done so and not been harsh at the same time. And I hate wives that wear their husbands rank....def an issue.
You have to realize respect is earned. Unfortunately a lot of service members do not think this way and have soured a lot of people’s thinking toward military. Take @Coiled03 for example; he is a super smart dude, very well spoken, and articulate. I bet he could have given you some pretty solid advice or great perspective. However, this “holier than thou” attitude of service members has affected his response in this thread. This idea that service ensures respect is pervasive and will only lead to public opinion going back to Vietnam era mentality.

The only difference between civilians and service members is the Unlimited Liability Clause. We signed on that dotted line willingly and do not deserve respect for that. However, I would hope that civilians have pride in our country and recognize the military’s contribution to this nation as a whole.

There are PLENTY of civilian sector careers/companies that are leaps and bounds more professional than the military. Perhaps you should look at going into one.

Could've prevented a whole lot of issues in this thread by just adding "civilian opinions not wanted" in the title.

Pretty clear the majority of service members in here think civilians are "less" than them because they didn't choose to serve. Good luck looking down your nose at your colleagues the rest of your life.
This is my opinion...the vast majority of military/veterans are enlisted. Enlisted members are indoctrinated to follow rules and act as a cog in the machine. For that machine to function properly the cog has to be conditioned; this includes things like “you’re better than X”, “you’re part of the select (or elite)”, “you’re a patriot”, and “you’re part of the 1 percent” all things designed to instill a sense of supremacy. Without that sense it would be hard to convince an 18yo to do what they’re told. I could go on more, but I think you get the point on that.

So far (to my knowledge) all of the service members responding here are enlisted except for @97desertCobra (however he was enlisted at one point {prior enlisted officers are a crapshoot}). So you’re seeing a lot of that mentality bubble through in the responses. On the officer side it is much more individualistic, they are conditioned to be the machine (among many machines). Although it seems counterintuitive, it generally works out that officers “integrate” to the civilian side much better, as on the civilian side (for the most part) everyone is their own machine.

There are just as many people in the military that complain and don’t do shit they’re supposed to as there are in the military. If there were not, the military wouldn’t have the UCMJ to get ****ers back in line.
 

_Snake_

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Could've prevented a whole lot of issues in this thread by just adding "civilian opinions not wanted" in the title.

Pretty clear the majority of service members in here think civilians are "less" than them because they didn't choose to serve. Good luck looking down your nose at your colleagues the rest of your life.

Weird. I didn’t pick that up at all. But it’s pretty clear how you feel about service members.
 

Coiled03

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Weird. I didn’t pick that up at all. But it’s pretty clear how you feel about service members.

If you didn't pick it up, it's because you either weren't looking, or didn't want to see it.

I assume you're implying I don't respect service members. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have family that served. The issue in this thread is that respect seems to be a one-way street.
 

_Snake_

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I assume you're implying I don't respect service members.

It kinda sounds that way when you say things like “Pretty clear the majority of service members in here think civilians are "less" than them because they didn't choose to serve. Good luck looking down your nose at your colleagues the rest of your life.”

I’m assuming you’re including me in the majority, and looking back at my posts in this thread I can see why you’d interpret them that way.

It’s definitely not the way I feel, and I believe the majority of the others serving / who have served feel the same.
 

97desertCobra

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This is my opinion...the vast majority of military/veterans are enlisted. Enlisted members are indoctrinated to follow rules and act as a cog in the machine. For that machine to function properly the cog has to be conditioned; this includes things like “you’re better than X”, “you’re part of the select (or elite)”, “you’re a patriot”, and “you’re part of the 1 percent” all things designed to instill a sense of supremacy. Without that sense it would be hard to convince an 18yo to do what they’re told. I could go on more, but I think you get the point on that.

So far (to my knowledge) all of the service members responding here are enlisted except for @97desertCobra (however he was enlisted at one point {prior enlisted officers are a crapshoot}). So you’re seeing a lot of that mentality bubble through in the responses. On the officer side it is much more individualistic, they are conditioned to be the machine (among many machines). Although it seems counterintuitive, it generally works out that officers “integrate” to the civilian side much better, as on the civilian side (for the most part) everyone is their own machine.

.

I agree with your assessment about enlisted being indoctrinated to believe they are more elite or special simply because they serve. I’ve noticed the same thing over the last 16 years. And for the first 4 or so years I had that mentality too but it changed over time. I gave an explanation in an earlier post.

If you read my responses I’ve made it pretty clear that I don’t think service members are any better than civilians who never served. It’s a volunteer force and the difference between a service member and a civilian is just the choice in career path. Sure service members make sacrifices that are most often much more extreme than what civilians will do in their lifetime but that doesn’t mean they should be worshiped like a super hero.

From the officer side we do have a different mentality overall. We are on a first name basis and the way business is conducted is in many ways similar to my civilian job in the finance industry. So yes, I would say officers have a much easier time transitioning out of the military.
 

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