TR6060 Reverse, 5th gear and 6th gear lock out

Robert M

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What about areas with high humidity? Storing the car out side?

As long as the system has brake fluid that absorbs moisture (which most do), the system is rusting from the inside where the fluid contacts the steel.........and then add the clutch system into the equation.....

I really wish silicone fluid was compatible with ABS!!

R
 

Robert M

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Reference the brake fluid rust . . . while a good overall comment concerning maintenance of the brake system, there is no chance his low mileage 2011 has fluid bad enough to be causing rust buildup in the clutch system unless he has been garaging the car at the bottom of the Atlantic.

I also forgot to mention, the clutch system.......No, I am not saying the rust is causing his issue, but reality is, every time you press that clutch pedal the clutch slave sucks fluid out of the brake reservoir and into the system. If the brake reservoir has rust in the bottom (where the rust is going to settle), and probably toward the back where the clutch feed line is located as shown in my picture, that rust is going to go into the system on a regular basis and then settle in it's lowest point which is where? the clutch slave.

There have also been some owners on this forum who have question how their fluid is black when the remove the line during a clutch change, some have attributed it to heat, but wait a minute, they have a oem plastic feed line, there is no way that the fluid would get so hot that it would discolor, but the plastic line is undamaged..................ding, ding, ding........rust! and it has settled/built up over time in the lowest area of the clutch hydraulic system. There was also mention of clutch dust getting into the hyd. system and making the fluid black?.....If dust is getting in, fluid should be showing signs of getting out....there were not leaks or seeping areas found.

..........and then one has to ask........"Did this contribute to the clutch failure?"

R
 
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josegovi

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Op I would cover the easy items first, a couple of fluid changes in the Transmission close together as well as brake fluid flush and flush the clutch hydraulic line. Get a few more miles behind the wheel and After that I would consider a clutch upgrade. You'll get better power holding capabilities, but should also gain a more positive engage/disengagement
I am probably going to that for sure, do you think this is something I can do or should I take to a shop? A better question would be from 1-10 what's the difficulty level, 10 being the most difficult?

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josegovi

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I just looked in what I believe is the brake fluid container and it seemed low. Robert, is your suggestion to flush the system and refill or just to top it off??

Also, I called tremmec and they referred me to call a local dealer for them. I called said dealer they were not open. I watched a video about the syncros online and they feature a shop in Arizona which I called, they said when problem happens to pump the clutch a couple of times to see if fixes the problem and that might be the clutch.

I believe as mentioned before, I will flush the transmission fluid and the brake fluid and see what that does.

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josegovi

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Forgot to attached the pictures of the break fluid.
20190918_194607.jpeg
20190918_194559.jpeg


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me32

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RedVenom48

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Hello All,


First I would like to thank everyone in advance for the help, as well as the administration team of this forum for allowing me to be a member. I would like to apologize in advance for any typos and/or errors, English is not my first language but hopefully between friends and google translate, I should minimize the issue LOL. I am going to give as much information as possible so my post might be lengthy.


With that said, I recently bought a 2011 GT500 with 39,000 miles on it and love the car for the most part. The car now has 44,500 miles on it and I am encountering transmission problems and I am looking for a solution. I researched around and within this forum and could not seem to find an article, or thread with the issue I am having, therefore I decided to create a new thread. I apologize if there is a thread on this already, and I failed to find it in my search.


I am not a mechanic but I love to learn as much as I can, specially about this matter. I have done oil changes, changed a radiator before and small jobs similar in complexity, so not much compared to some of you guys. My problem unlike most people is with 5th gear, 6th gear and reverse. I have seen most people complaint about the shift from 1st to 2nd gear which I am unsure if its present in my vehicle, as most people experience this issue when shifting at high RPMS and I have not shifted from 1st to 2nd pasted 3 or 4 RPM.


The issue is that the car will not go into 5th gear, 6th gear or reverse on certain occasions which I will explain in more depth below:


1st time it happened – drove from work to the airport (about 30 minute drive), did not drive the car like a princess but was not redlining the gears either. Once I get to the airport, I went around 2 times to pick up my passenger, and as I leave the airport when I get on going go thru the gears, when I get to 4th gear and try to go from 4th to 5th it would not let me at all, almost like something blocking it. I went back to 4th and tried it again, same results, so then I tried going from 4th and neutral to 6th with same results. The issue lasted about 10minutes and then it started going in 5th and 6th gear like nothing happened.


2nd time it happened – I drove from my house to cars and coffee meet (about 30 minute drive) drove normal and when I went inside the parking lot, I found a spot and went to park in reverse and it would not go in reverse, same feeling as what happened on my way to the airport.


Took my car to a specialized shop on Mustangs, they called me after a couple of days and tell me they are not able to replicate the issue. I told them my two scenarios pointing out that it did not happen in a 5 or 10 minute drive, so they said they will drive the car some more. Got a called a few days after and they said the same thing, they drove it some more and were not able to replicate the problem. I asked them what was their recommendations and they said to change the shifter for an MGW one. Bought the shifter and got it installed and which did not solve the problem.


3rd time it happened – Wake up on a Saturday, go turn on the car and reverse would not go in, however, after a couple of tries it did go in.


4th time it happened – Went on a different Saturday to the gym and then for a drive of maybe 20 minutes or so, and it would not go in 5th gear, tried it 2 times with no success, then tried 6th gear and it went in and after that it was all fine.


I checked the transmission fluid and is good and changed the shifter. I hear the Syncros on this transmission are not the greatest, so I hear about Hybrid Syncros (part carbon fiber, part metal/steele/brass) that might solve the problem everybody else is experiencing from 1st to 2nd gear but not sure. Also, with reverse being in the mix, I don’t even know if reverse has a Syncro, as well as I am not a mechanic so can work on it myself, I would have to paying a shop which from what I understand, it would be at least $2,500 to change the Syncros. This brings me to question that is, if is the Syncros and it cost that much money to fix, is it better to get a new transmission? If so, what transmission? Certainly don’t feel like gambling with the TR6060.

By the way, to the best of my knowledge the car is stock except for borla exhaust.
Welcome! Ill keep this simple but here goes

1: Probably need to have the transmission rebuilt. They are tough units, but you are correct that the syncros from the factory are weak. WOT box, torque limiters, Blowfish Bracket etc are all band-aids to this issue.

For me , WOT Box helped the most. But the issue is IN the transmission. With a fresh and healthy TR6060, a WOT Box is VERY effective. Ive got all the parts for a fresh trans rebuild for my TR6060, just need to pull it and send to local Tremec dealer.

Look into Calimer Transmissions. He is considered one of the best Tremec/manual trans builders in the performance community. Can definitely beef up that TR6060.

Calimer Transmissions Getrag MT-82/tr6060Specialist

2: Aside from auto swapping the car to a 6R80, the next "upgrade" is the T56 Magnum XL. They are nearly identical internally to the TR6060. different tail housings and direct mount shifter. Youd need a new driveshaft with an XL. IMO, better to rebuild the TR6060 with hybrid synchros 1-6 and R, new bearings etc. The MGW shifter is excellent. With a properly built TR-6060 you should have a great manual shifting experience.

3:Fresh brake flushes to the brake system can help reduce any chances of it causing issues in the clutch system. Stand alone clutch reservoir would be ideal. If you pull the trans for rebuild, install a new pilot bearing (Ford racing makes beefy upgrade over stock) and new FACTORY slave cylinder/throwout bearing. Good time to upgrade to a braided stainless steel clutch line as well. Flush brakes and clutch thoroughly.

Welcome to the forums!
 

Robert M

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Forgot to attached the pictures of the break fluid.View attachment 1599753View attachment 1599754

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If fluid has been added over time, like as the pads wear, the fluid that is easily seen will look good, but down in the bottom is where the sediment is. I would completely flush the system starting at the right rear, keep fresh new fluid in the reservoir as the old fluid is being pushed out through the caliper bleeder(s). <<<This will get new fluid from the master cylinder, through the ABS module and to the farthest point (right rear), then do the much quicker left rear caliper until the fluid is new/clean and then continue with the right side. It is not a big deal to do it the old fashioned way, my wife was in the drivers seat and I was at the caliper and also checking the M/C often and keeping full.

I think DOT 4 is the oem recommend? I believe I used DOT 5.5 (I'm pretty sure) in mine which is a higher temp............AND NOT DOT 5 which is silicone and not recommended for ABS systems.

As for the clutch system, there is no bleeder in the oem system, however McLeod does make a bleeder that will allow the clutch system to be bled to the bell housing, which will get clean/new fluid in and through the clutch master.

004.jpg


Some guys like the fully flexible clutch line, I like the FRPP pre-curved line with flex end as shown below. That line and the McLeod bleeder added to the GT500 clutch hyd. system will allow bleeding to the bell housing. My thought is, to start with the system would be bled like a brake system, push down the pedal, open the bleeder pedal goes to the floor, close bleeder, let pedal up, repeat until new/fresh fluid is all you see at the bell housing. <<That will clean out the system back including the clutch master cyl. NOW, what about the TOB which is beyond this bleeder?? I believe, but am not positive that the TOB can also be "somewhat" cleaned out..........this process would be the same "push the pedal down" which would extend the TOB, but at this point the bleeder would be opened and the pressure plate would push the TOB back and fluid would come out of the bleeder. Would this fully flush the TOB and line? No, but it is better to get at least some of the clutch system flushed vs. none.

R
 
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Robert M

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Welcome! Ill keep this simple but here goes

Look into Calimer Transmissions. He is considered one of the best Tremec/manual trans builders in the performance community. Can definitely beef up that TR6060.

Calimer Transmissions Getrag MT-82/tr6060Specialist

2: Aside from auto swapping the car to a 6R80, the next "upgrade" is the T56 Magnum XL. They are nearly identical internally to the TR6060. different tail housings and direct mount shifter. Youd need a new driveshaft with an XL. IMO, better to rebuild the TR6060 with hybrid synchros 1-6 and R, new bearings etc. The MGW shifter is excellent. With a properly built TR-6060 you should have a great manual shifting experience.

Welcome to the forums!

What is the story with the Magnum XL? I came across a website that offers this transmission with shifter, a new 1-pc. shorter driveshaft, new cross member and a SFI 2-pc. scatter shield for $4200 or so, with the choice of two first gear ratios and I was thinking they listed as a TR6060 Magnum XL, not T56? <<<But I could be wrong?

It sounded like a pretty good deal considering a 1-pc. alum driveshaft is $700 or so by itself?

R
 

RedVenom48

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Its all marketing. TR6060 is the transmissions code name for OEM applications. T56 is too well known of a brand to discontinue its use, so Tremec uses it for aftermarket applications

The Differences Between the TREMEC T-56 and Magnum 6-Speed – TREMEC Blog: Get Connected

However, the T56 and T56 Magnum XL are completely different transmissions internally. The Magnum XL/6060 are nearly identical internally. Compared to the T56, the Magnum XL/6060's have much beefier gears, bearings and synchronizer assemblies.

The issue the 6060 has is that the OEM specified synchronizer RINGS are sub par for the kind of abuse a high HP/Torque engine needs when shifting high load. So when it comes to finding a solution to the 2nd grind or gear lockout issues, a rebuild with the Tremec specified Hybrid syncro rings for all gears, new bearings and bronze fork pads should positively improve the 6060's performance.

The way that the MGW2 shifter mounts and interfaces to the 6060, its darn near the same as if the 6060 had a direct mount shiter.

The local Tremec dealer who also happens to be a Mustang performance shop here in Phoenix told me that ALL TR6060s have grind issue. He's got Chevy and Dodge shops sending them TR6060s for rebuilds in addition to dealing with the GT500s.
 

Robert M

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Its all marketing. TR6060 is the transmissions code name for OEM applications. T56 is too well known of a brand to discontinue its use, so Tremec uses it for aftermarket applications

The Differences Between the TREMEC T-56 and Magnum 6-Speed – TREMEC Blog: Get Connected

However, the T56 and T56 Magnum XL are completely different transmissions internally. The Magnum XL/6060 are nearly identical internally. Compared to the T56, the Magnum XL/6060's have much beefier gears, bearings and synchronizer assemblies.

The issue the 6060 has is that the OEM specified synchronizer RINGS are sub par for the kind of abuse a high HP/Torque engine needs when shifting high load. So when it comes to finding a solution to the 2nd grind or gear lockout issues, a rebuild with the Tremec specified Hybrid syncro rings for all gears, new bearings and bronze fork pads should positively improve the 6060's performance.

The way that the MGW2 shifter mounts and interfaces to the 6060, its darn near the same as if the 6060 had a direct mount shiter.

The local Tremec dealer who also happens to be a Mustang performance shop here in Phoenix told me that ALL TR6060s have grind issue. He's got Chevy and Dodge shops sending them TR6060s for rebuilds in addition to dealing with the GT500s.

Are there decent shifter options for the tail shaft mounted XL application? I like that feature much better than the divorced shifter mounting trans. and body.

R
 

cidsamuth

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I have the T56 Magnum XL in my 08 GT. It's my understanding that the synros are upgraded above that in the 6060 to avoid any of the grinding/lockout issues. Otherwise, it would be a difficult sell for the aftermarket, since guys who generally are willing to fork over the $ for such an upgrade are also people abusing the transmissions at the track.

The direct shifter deal is nice, but the downside is that you feel a lot of engine vibration at higher RPMs. Racers won't mind, but I can see why the manfuctureres wouldn't want it in an OEM application.

I LOVE MGW shifters, and I will likely upgrade to one on the Magnum XL at some point.
 

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