Thoughts on DCT

GTSpartan

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Likely never know as nobody is willing to offer up a GT for real data including Ford. Pretty lame honestly.

Agreed. I think there is an owner out there that ran a 10.8X @ 131 with a 1.75 60ft at 600 DA.

The GT and GT500 have a very similar P:W ratio with DCT and launch control. I think we will find the two run very similar straight line numbers.
 

Dusten

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The '13/'14 GT500 beat(s) the '05/'06 GT in every performance metric, save for maybe braking. Even though all the owner deliveries aren't complete, the new GT is an "old" car dating back to 2015. The new GT500 might very well be able to beat it on some tracks and in some performance metrics.



I had that argument here some years ago. The "logic" then was that with the added HP/TRQ, the drivetrain parts produced more heat and resistance. But, yeah, I'm with you there in not believing drivetrain loss is linear like that. I believe there's a certain amount of loss by the parts and that's it. I don't believe adding power adds drivetrain losses.
Gale banks has a huge story on it. It's not a percentage but a set number basically.
 

blk02edge

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Agreed. I think there is an owner out there that ran a 10.8X @ 131 with a 1.75 60ft at 600 DA.

The GT and GT500 have a very similar P:W ratio with DCT and launch control. I think we will find the two run very similar straight line numbers.
Yea I think straight line would be fairly even. I want to see lap times though. Im hard pressed to believe the 500 would be faster
 

Tob

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The rumor is that the GT500 turned a better road course lap time (I believe in Florida) than a GT with worn slicks. I've heard it from two sources now. Take it for what its worth. Obviously we'll see once the car is out how well it matches up.
 

GTSpartan

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The rumor is that the GT500 turned a better road course lap time (I believe in Florida) than a GT with worn slicks. I've heard it from two sources now. Take it for what its worth. Obviously we'll see once the car is out how well it matches up.

That would be very surprising. Other that HP (still very similar power to weight), the GT has a significant advantage in virtually every other category. The list is almost too long to list.

We must be dealing with a 720S type car here, that seemingly defies physics.
 

1FASFKR

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In the conditions the demon went 9.65@140, yes. In average conditions 130-135.

The night/track the demon went 9.65@140, i’d Imagine a 2019 5.0 gt 10a could have gone 11.50@123 to give an idea of how opportune it was.

Iirc mid 50° range, sticky sub sea level track, lots of prep, etc.

I think 10.75@137 will be common enough to say it’s a solid near hero run.

I think 10.5@140 will be the eventual hero run. Iirc zr1 went 10.2@136 but that’s a lot of aero and an 8a.

The non carbon aero gt500’s will trap probably 3-5mph higher than the aero pack ones imo.

Big reason being I think the 760 is a soft rating much like the 2013 gt500’s 662 or the 03’s 390.

Demons claim 840 and make 760whp

I think the fords will follow in the bullitt, gt, and gt350’s footsteps of 10-12% drivetrain loss tops.

480hp Bullitts are making 435-450whp.
526hp gt350’s are making 460-485whp.
460hp 18+ 5.0 10a are making 415whp
460hp 18+ 5.0 6m are making 430whp.

I’m thinking:
760hp 20 gt500 will make 720whp.

•12psi 2.65 TVS and 9.5/1 5.2L with 8k rpm is well beyond a 760hp combo. 7psi voodoo 5.2’s albeit 12/1 iirc are making 750whp. 7 vs 12psi is much more drastic than 9.5 vs 12/1 compression.
•dct’s don’t sap up hp like auto’s do. There’s no where near the thermal loss or fluid exchange issues like an auto.

•The dct drivetrain in a gt500 could be about 40tq/55hp to fully turn 8k rpm maybe more since its also spinning some heavy brakes. An a8 auto drivetrain probably needs 70tq/85hp to fully spin to 7k rpm.

I don’t personally buy the % loss because the driven parts don’t get heavier or harder to turn as you increase hp. If they did, going up 1psi of boost at a time wouldn’t be as linear to calculate whp with. Also why are 500hp cars with manuals seemingly only losing about 30-40hp just like 300-400hp cars with similar manuals did... 2017 5.0’s have basically the same drivetrain loss as 2018’s. The engines are obviously slightly under rated in both applications by 15-20hp, but additionally, the trans, driveshaft, diff, wheels and tires are close to the same. Same goes for a 2010 4.6 mustang gt manual making 275whp on a 315hp rating. It takes torque to spin that stuff. It doesn’t magically take additional torque to spin that stuff or translate a higher hp cars power to the road. These drive trains aren’t sloppy either to where power may be escaping do to poor reinforcement of hard parts or insufficient clutches etc.

Put this dct in a demon and I bet it runs 9.25@145+ Halo run.

I think the absolutely fastest gt500 scenario would be a carbon fiber wheel setup on a base aero car but that’s not worth the $18k. Buy some $5-6k very light after market wheels and be done with it instead

Thing about spinning to 8k rpm is yes you have to spin a flywheel and clutch faster, but the engine is also more accurate and efficient at scavenging and clearing itself out up there as well. Engines are the least efficient at low to mid rpm for power production. Half the time the cycles are incomplete by some percent and the fuel doesn’t even fully burn.

All really good points. The only thing that stood out was I think you're a little to low on drive train loss and a little too high on dyno numbers for the GT350. From what I've witnessed...more than once...is that the stock GT350 comes in at ~451 HP to the rear. Closer to 15% loss. 485 HP would be a stock freak.
 

SSSSSSSSSSSSVT

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The rumor is that the GT500 turned a better road course lap time (I believe in Florida) than a GT with worn slicks. I've heard it from two sources now. Take it for what its worth. Obviously we'll see once the car is out how well it matches up.

Who would have thought that the 400k v6 "supercar" was beatable?

Slow clap!
 

blk02edge

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The rumor is that the GT500 turned a better road course lap time (I believe in Florida) than a GT with worn slicks. I've heard it from two sources now. Take it for what its worth. Obviously we'll see once the car is out how well it matches up.
Who was driving both? Worn slicks are still much faster than new street tires and theres no way a GT on worn slicks is losing to a Gt500 on an oem tire.
 

tt335ci03cobra

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140 mph on a stock 2020 gt500??

Lmao!


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com

I clearly stated my point though. Halo to halo run it’ll have 140 in it the same night a demon runs 140 imo.

I’m expecting 131-137 to be the vast majority to halo area.
 

LostM

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I clearly stated my point though. Halo to halo run it’ll have 140 in it the same night a demon runs 140 imo.

I’m expecting 131-137 to be the vast majority to halo area.

I so hope so. 133 to start makes me happy, 135+ makes me extremely excited...

But the thought has promise:
" If you take it (gt500) to your local dragstrip, you MAY be asked to leave"
-Jim Owens

That hints at 135+ MPH
 

Tob

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Less the ridiculously harsh ride.

Fair enough. I suspected Ford would bail or never even considered the DSSV's due to the fact that money-wise they would have provided yet another bump to the car's already silly price. Also, given the GT500's "history" a well done mag setup would pretty much get the car where it neede to be to meet their goals for the car. That said, I laud GM for taking the hardcore route even though they knew it may turn people away. In essence, Ford was more passive here.

Who was driving both? Worn slicks are still much faster than new street tires and theres no way a GT on worn slicks is losing to a Gt500 on an oem tire.

I thought no way as well. All I can say is you'll find out in due time.
 

blk02edge

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Fair enough. I suspected Ford would bail or never even considered the DSSV's due to the fact that money-wise they would have provided yet another bump to the car's already silly price. Also, given the GT500's "history" a well done mag setup would pretty much get the car where it neede to be to meet their goals for the car. That said, I laud GM for taking the hardcore route even though they knew it may turn people away. In essence, Ford was more passive here.



I thought no way as well. All I can say is you'll find out in due time.
Why is someone going to instrument test a GT?
 

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