**** YOU, GM. Just die.

mc01svt

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I promise you Toyota is not perfect either. ALL manufacturers have their issues.

I’d put my money on the longevity of a 5.0 150 over a tundra any day.

you would lose all ur monies...

I can assure you that the 13th generation f-150s will be junked or on their 2nd or 3rd owners 10yrs from now while those 5.7L tundras are still humming along. And i say that as someone who has been daily driving a coyote f150 for the last 7yrs.

Ford has gone the route of turning the f150 into disposable appliances with alot of "tech" instead of built to last forever tanks like they used to. The coyote has only been around since 2011 and its already on its 3rd iteration, with each having higher frequencies of problems. The 18s have been dropping like flies in the mustang and the f-150, mysterious ticking issues, oil consumption, oil and coolant leaks. The things have plastic oil pans for gods sake. Ford doesn't care as long as the trucks make it through warranty and they know they will continue to be the market leader through blind brand loyalty.

Toyota on the other hand relentlessly makes small changes to improve quality and durability over time without major updates. The 5.7l has been around since 2006 and its based on the previous engine (UZ series) that has been around since the 90s. This company actually cares about long term reliability. Have you seen prices on used tundras and tacomas even with high mileage? There's a reason for that.
 

HISSMAN

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I don't have a dog in the hunt as far as the GM vs Ford war goes. Everything I have in the garage is Fiat-Chrysler. I'm not sure what it says about this message board, but it is still where I dwell the most. I hit a Jeep forum from time to time, but don't know that I have even ventured to a Dodge board as it relates the the Durango RT we have.
 

ZYBORG

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you would lose all ur monies...

I can assure you that the 13th generation f-150s will be junked or on their 2nd or 3rd owners 10yrs from now while those 5.7L tundras are still humming along. And i say that as someone who has been daily driving a coyote f150 for the last 7yrs.

Ford has gone the route of turning the f150 into disposable appliances with alot of "tech" instead of built to last forever tanks like they used to. The coyote has only been around since 2011 and its already on its 3rd iteration, with each having higher frequencies of problems. The 18s have been dropping like flies in the mustang and the f-150, mysterious ticking issues, oil consumption, oil and coolant leaks. The things have plastic oil pans for gods sake. Ford doesn't care as long as the trucks make it through warranty and they know they will continue to be the market leader through blind brand loyalty.

Toyota on the other hand relentlessly makes small changes to improve quality and durability over time without major updates. The 5.7l has been around since 2006 and its based on the previous engine (UZ series) that has been around since the 90s. This company actually cares about long term reliability. Have you seen prices on used tundras and tacomas even with high mileage? There's a reason for that.

I had a 5.0 equipped f150 and now have Toyota truck. Loved my 150 and love my Toyota even more. Both have their own set of “quirks”...

I have not yet seen any evidence of 5.0 trucks dropping like flies.... maybe I’ll retake another look.

I really don’t believe that the drivetrains on the Tundra are superior to those in the 5.0 trucks. I am open to any evidence that shows otherwise.
 

me32

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you would lose all ur monies...

I can assure you that the 13th generation f-150s will be junked or on their 2nd or 3rd owners 10yrs from now while those 5.7L tundras are still humming along. And i say that as someone who has been daily driving a coyote f150 for the last 7yrs.

Ford has gone the route of turning the f150 into disposable appliances with alot of "tech" instead of built to last forever tanks like they used to. The coyote has only been around since 2011 and its already on its 3rd iteration, with each having higher frequencies of problems. The 18s have been dropping like flies in the mustang and the f-150, mysterious ticking issues, oil consumption, oil and coolant leaks. The things have plastic oil pans for gods sake. Ford doesn't care as long as the trucks make it through warranty and they know they will continue to be the market leader through blind brand loyalty.

Toyota on the other hand relentlessly makes small changes to improve quality and durability over time without major updates. The 5.7l has been around since 2006 and its based on the previous engine (UZ series) that has been around since the 90s. This company actually cares about long term reliability. Have you seen prices on used tundras and tacomas even with high mileage? There's a reason for that.

Your blind if you think Toyota really cares about reliability. I guess you haven't heard about the rusting frames. In no way is that reliability.

Fact is all the manufacturers are making throw away vehicles. Why so you can buy a new one every 5-7 yrs.
 

jeffh81

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No worries, man.

I remember reading about the million mile tundra. I have not read or heard of any extraordinary issues with the 5.0 equipped 150 that would prevent it from getting there (with proper maintenance and no abuse).

Perhaps 5.0 f150s have not been around long enough for that yet? Or Perhaps there is something I am missing...?


So far its been 2x4.6 powered Tundras. The 5.7 hasn’t hit the mark yet. Time will tell
 

BigPoppa

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Having been deposed by Toyota during a hearing regarding their vehicle safety, I will state that their line of questioning was indicative that your safety is only as important to them as the bottom line on the accounting sheet. Just the same for all the manufacturers. Investor dividends are always more important than your safety if it will affect the returns. That is what a CEO is hired for. Their only concern is increasing investor wealth. If you think that any of them are concerned about anything else, I've got bad news for you.
 

jeffh81

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I don't have a dog in the hunt as far as the GM vs Ford war goes. Everything I have in the garage is Fiat-Chrysler. I'm not sure what it says about this message board, but it is still where I dwell the most. I hit a Jeep forum from time to time, but don't know that I have even ventured to a Dodge board as it relates the the Durango RT we have.

We really have the best mixture of everything on here. Everyone drives every brand and gives honest non fanboy reviews. The Ramforum is alive and rocking with multiple members from here and for the most part those guys are bappy.
 

Recon

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Million mile F150?

c346db5dafe7ef71af2fcec1377eec15.jpg

Almost half?
Doesn’t matter to me. I like my bastard Silverado and will keep it forever.


Pick your poison.
 

BigPoppa

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I should have mentioned this in my previous post, but....

Companies tend to use utilitarianism logic in determining how their business should approach ethics.

For those of you who don't know what utilitarianism is, let me explain briefly.

It is an ethics theory that determines if something is ethical based on how much happiness the action brings.

In cases of business, they determine happiness as a financial. The more profit made, the more ethically justified their actions are.

For instance, Apple made the determination that a software update which damaged older wifi chips in some of their earlier phones was more ethically responsible to it's shareholders because the owners of the broken phones would spend more money to replace the phones as opposed to how much Apple would have to pay out in class action lawsuits.

Unfortunately, many companies and municipalities try to apply only one ethical theory to justify their actions. True ethics applies a mix of several theories, though, not just utilitarianism.

Thus we're back to the airbags. It's cheaper to not replace them and just pay out on the lawsuits if and when someone is killed and sues GM. This is the logic most CEOs apply, not just today, but has been so for years.

This is why I get a giggle when I hear about a company's ethics policy.
 

Recon

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Keep it up. You will get there

That’s from a 00 F150 we did exhaust work on. My Silverado is at almost 219k, no where near that. But I had a changed with an 01 Sierra with almost 350k miles last time I saw it.


Pick your poison.
 

mc01svt

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I had a 5.0 equipped f150 and now have Toyota truck. Loved my 150 and love my Toyota even more. Both have their own set of “quirks”...

I have not yet seen any evidence of 5.0 trucks dropping like flies.... maybe I’ll retake another look.

I really don’t believe that the drivetrains on the Tundra are superior to those in the 5.0 trucks. I am open to any evidence that shows otherwise.

Without writing a thesis about all this just consider this.

the coyote has a 6,000psi direct injection pump, sprayed in cylinder liner and a plastic oil pan. You have to be a fool to think these will hold up when the miles start piling on. The tundra 5.7L has a normal 60psi port injection, proper cast iron liners and a metal oil pan. Spray deposited liners are unheard of in the truck world, this tech comes from race engines and motorcycles, when it wears out the engine is effectively junk.

Did you notice that ford never offered the coyote as the base engine in the super duty? There's a reason for that, it can not and does not meet the durability requirements that the 2v 5.4L did. Same can be said for the ecoboost 3.5L, it makes the power but it will not live long at higher load cycles.

all this doesn't matter as people trade the trucks in every 4yrs chasing the latest tech and shiniest grill. If you want a long lasting ford truck you had better buy a super duty.
 

jeffh81

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Without writing a thesis about all this just consider this.

the coyote has a 6,000psi direct injection pump, sprayed in cylinder liner and a plastic oil pan. You have to be a fool to think these will hold up when the miles start piling on. The tundra 5.7L has a normal 60psi port injection, proper cast iron liners and a metal oil pan. Spray deposited liners are unheard of in the truck world, this tech comes from race engines and motorcycles, when it wears out the engine is effectively junk.

Did you notice that ford never offered the coyote as the base engine in the super duty? There's a reason for that, it can not and does not meet the durability requirements that the 2v 5.4L did. Same can be said for the ecoboost 3.5L, it makes the power but it will not live long at higher load cycles.

all this doesn't matter as people trade the trucks in every 4yrs chasing the latest tech and shiniest grill. If you want a long lasting ford truck you had better buy a super duty.


Lots of 6.2 superdutys on the ford-truck forum with tons of miles and no complaints
 

mc01svt

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Your blind if you think Toyota really cares about reliability. I guess you haven't heard about the rusting frames. In no way is that reliability.

Fact is all the manufacturers are making throw away vehicles. Why so you can buy a new one every 5-7 yrs.

toyota's entire corporate culture for the last 25yrs has been built on continuous improvement. Ford by their own admission is no longer "built ford tough" but "built ford proud." lol

If you're only knock on toyota is rusting frames (which they replaced on even out of warranty trucks) that speaks volumes. Lots of f-150 owners got the shaft when their freshly out of warranty 5.4l started coughing up cam phasers and timing chains.

i dont own a tundra but im not a blind ford loyalist either, all i know is that the toyota 4.6/5.7L are legendary when it comes to longevity. Not gonna win any races or mpg battles but they last.
 
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mc01svt

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Lots of 6.2 superdutys on the ford-truck forum with tons of miles and no complaints

last year for the 6.2L in the f-150 was 2014, awesome motor but limited availability as ford crammed the ecoboost down our throats. is The ironic part of all this is ford had spent the previous 15yrs trying to convince everyone that smaller multi valve engines were better. Lol Then they go out and build a large displacement iron block 2v dinosaur. Even now about to replace it with a larger dinosaur (godzilla). Way to right the ship after eating some major crow.
 

me32

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toyota's entire corporate culture for the last 25yrs has been built on continuous improvement. Ford by their own admission is no longer "built ford tough" but "built ford proud." lol

If you're only knock on toyota is rusting frames (which they replaced on even out of warranty trucks) that speaks volumes. Lots of f-150 owners got the shaft when their freshly out of warranty 5.4l started coughing up cam phasers and timing chains.

i dont own a tundra but im not a blind ford loyalist either, all i know is that the toyota 4.6/5.7L are legendary when it comes to longevity. Not gonna win any races or mpg battles but they last.

Nice argument on the ford 5.4. Part of those issues were owner neglect.

I find it funny thoe because the ford 6.2L has been out living the Toyota 5.7. With proper maintenance. Now the 6.2L isnt gonna win any mpg but its gonna win some races.

Btw Toyota is still having issues with frame rust. Just saying
 

gimmie11s

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Without writing a thesis about all this just consider this.

the coyote has a 6,000psi direct injection pump, sprayed in cylinder liner and a plastic oil pan. You have to be a fool to think these will hold up when the miles start piling on. The tundra 5.7L has a normal 60psi port injection, proper cast iron liners and a metal oil pan. Spray deposited liners are unheard of in the truck world, this tech comes from race engines and motorcycles, when it wears out the engine is effectively junk.

Did you notice that ford never offered the coyote as the base engine in the super duty? There's a reason for that, it can not and does not meet the durability requirements that the 2v 5.4L did. Same can be said for the ecoboost 3.5L, it makes the power but it will not live long at higher load cycles.

all this doesn't matter as people trade the trucks in every 4yrs chasing the latest tech and shiniest grill. If you want a long lasting ford truck you had better buy a super duty.

Ive never pinned your posts as "idiotic" in my book, but today that has changed.
 

RACECAR

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Well if they go under, that’s thousands of Americans put out of work. So I hope they stay around.

That said, here’s to hoping that the decision makers at GM get their heads out of their ass and do the right thing. I believe it’s called a cephalanalectomy.

I’m with ya, plus if they stay around it keeps other competing companies on their toes building better products.
 

mc01svt

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Ive never pinned your posts as "idiotic" in my book, but today that has changed.

instead of throwing insults how about challenging my position?

Would you like to explain to me how an engine with plasma spray deposited or nikasil cylinders is just as durable as a cast iron or steel sleeved engine? If you believe that, i dont know what else to tell you and i'll rest my case.
 

svtfocus2cobra

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Nice argument on the ford 5.4. Part of those issues were owner neglect.

I find it funny thoe because the ford 6.2L has been out living the Toyota 5.7. With proper maintenance. Now the 6.2L isnt gonna win any mpg but its gonna win some races.

Btw Toyota is still having issues with frame rust. Just saying

As someone who has seen my fair share of 5.4s come through already, most of the time it is owner neglect with just simple oil changes. Lots and lots of issues we see are essentially just owner neglect and lack of maintenance. The reason you see so many high mileage Toyotas is because a lot of their owners are often a certain type of person who is anal-retentive in everything they do and they do things by the book and they use a scheduler so they never miss a single appointment ever. No car is making it to a million miles on its own. It will have service records a mile long before it gets there because water pumps are going to fail, belts are going to fail, plastics in the engine are going to get brittle from oil and heat and absolutely will break in time. All of these things are inevitable.
 

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