It kept going up and that's where it was done going up. Made 552/575 and went 132 in the 1/4, so she was happy. E85 really is amazing stuff. On 93 we had 21* in it. Made 520/540
How much timing is too aggressive vs. safe, etc.?
- Thread starter GM2Ford
- Start date
It kept going up and that's where it was done going up. Made 552/575 and went 132 in the 1/4, so she was happy. E85 really is amazing stuff. On 93 we had 21* in it. Made 520/540
Ah, interesting.
I’m not using a dyno right now... so I’m sorta just going on “seat of the pants” feeling, while monitoring afr, and then after a wot pull I just immediately shut down and pull to inspect the plugs. I really do need to get on a dyno though to verify things are actually going up.
Question for the community:
Would going from 16-18* to 21-22* timing (on E85) be that noticeable for the driver?
I’m not using a dyno right now... so I’m sorta just going on “seat of the pants” feeling, while monitoring afr, and then after a wot pull I just immediately shut down and pull to inspect the plugs. I really do need to get on a dyno though to verify things are actually going up.
Question for the community:
Would going from 16-18* to 21-22* timing (on E85) be that noticeable for the driver?
Yep. Also, dont be scared of timing on ethanol. That timing bump will be worth of decent amount. The dyno is a nice tuning tool as you can see real time changes from your adjustments and not just guessing.
Hey @GM2Ford, what blower setup are you running?
Hey @GM2Ford, what blower setup are you running?
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Yes. My car gained 48rwhp from just switching fuels and only adding 2.5* of timing before the injectors maxed.
What compression ratio are you high boost guys running? With this 20+* of timing.
Still the factory original 04 motor here.....so 8.5/1
Me too. Just an 03 motor. Thought that was kind of covered in the initial post. Maybe not.
ANSWER FROM THE COMMUNITY:
Stop being you’re own tooner and go to a professional.
I’m not trying to be an ass, I’m trying to save you a motor. Based on the questions you’re asking and that you’re not even sure how to add timing, spend the $500ish dollars on a custom dyno tune from one of the oldest and most experienced in the game, the guy in your backyard.
You won’t be dissatisfied with Lidio’s work.
-J
@GM2Ford has worked with a few tuners on his setup. This guy needs to share some photos of this build with you guys. He has done some impressive work with his car. He is just a very curious guy who wants to learn some things about tuning.
I've followed his build on Snapchat and via text messaging. He's going to have a wicked car...if he ever finishes it. Lol
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That’s well and good, and I wish him the best and trying to help, just not sure why anyone would play with this without professional support. Not mail order/remote tuning on a car without a wide band commanded ECU. if he’s spent the money, why not a little more to have an in person custom dyno tune with a well respected tuner.
-J
-J
Ok, well I missed that he had an aftermarket build, I just figured it was factory or near factory compression.
I'm sure if you have a build with high compression, like 10.5/1 to make full use of ethanol.....you probably don't need as much timing and can still make stupid power with great low end. So that could be a game changer with the tuning.
If you have a wideband and the ability to data log and email the file....you are absolutely custom tuning the car. It does not have to be in person.
Mail order is more synonymous with "canned tune"...... I.E. no datalogging just Russian roulette.
I was implying that I thought it was a lower compression build. Maybe I am wrong.
I have no idea what he has built.....but I know most that fully intend to run E85 they're going to bump compression up from 8.5/1.....like 10 ~ 10.5.
That's what I would do. Make up for lack of size by upping the compression and running good fuel.
We can agree to disagree if you feel email/remote tuning is as good as in person directly with your tuner.
Is the email tune service free?
I can see this for guys that might not have anyone local, but this guy has several great Tuners in his hometown, makes zero sense not to use those resources.
Reread this thread and the questions being asked.
It should be obvious he should highly consider my advice.
I’ve had 5+ cars tuned by Lidio over the last 20yrs, and there’s a reason guys tow 10+ hrs to him.
Not to mention Walsh, Livernois, etc all in metro Detroit.
Again, we can agree to disagree on the best way to get tuning done, but there’s a reason I spend my money the way I do.
-J
At the end of day.....its whose on the other end interpreting the data, editing the file, emailing it back....and then all over again with new log, revised file....until the car is correct.
Being in person doesn't change this fact....who is looking at the data and making file revisions is still the end shiznit. You can be in person and still get a quack making the tune.
What I typed has nothing to with Lidio or any other tuner...beit in person or remote. The process is still the same. You need a seasoned, quality person making the tune.
keep in mind the 4v C heads are VERY INTOLERANT to high compression and timing.
usually for a low compression (8.2-8.5 CR - stock 03/04) engine I shoot no more than 20 degrees of timing to them on pump gas boosted, at 20lbs I usually shoot 13-17 degrees to them up top depending on what they want and if the car is in california or wyoming etc... with junk fuel. I have yet to tune one that wanted any more than that. I've had several come in with timing set at 23 degrees up top on pump and they always made more power when timing was pulled down to 20, albeit not much but anytime you gain rwhp pulling out timing thats very bad.
for the exact same engine with nothing more than a piston swap making them high compression (10:1 - 11:1 CR) I shoot no more than 11 degrees of timing to them on pump gas boosted, at 20lbs I usually shoot 7 degrees to them up top. I have never come across one that wanted any more than that.
For reference, a stock 03/04 cobra engine with a simple piston swap to up the compression to 10:1 and the blower removed makes max tq at 14 degrees of timing and peak power with no more than 19 degrees up top. Some I've done made max power at 16 degrees up top.. this is all naturally aspirated.
On e-85 I shoot 22 degrees of timing to them up to 25lbs. Over that I usually pull a couple degrees from there and make a few pulls to see what they like.
This is all based on my personal experiences with 03/04 cobras. When I used to tune at 49performance in jackson,ms the owners there personally owned 7 or 8 of them over the years that were all basically shop cars I tuned. There was at least another 20 or so that came through for tunes there as well. Here in new orleans at my shop we have 6 of them that are pretty much shop cars (owners are like family). Not to mention we've had at least another 35+ 03/04 cobras come through the shop here for tunes. We currently have 7 here now getting work done. I've also remote tuned and done drivetrain swaps etc on many more of them over the years. Suffice to say I've done my fair share of testing and tuning on them to have a pretty good grasp.
usually for a low compression (8.2-8.5 CR - stock 03/04) engine I shoot no more than 20 degrees of timing to them on pump gas boosted, at 20lbs I usually shoot 13-17 degrees to them up top depending on what they want and if the car is in california or wyoming etc... with junk fuel. I have yet to tune one that wanted any more than that. I've had several come in with timing set at 23 degrees up top on pump and they always made more power when timing was pulled down to 20, albeit not much but anytime you gain rwhp pulling out timing thats very bad.
for the exact same engine with nothing more than a piston swap making them high compression (10:1 - 11:1 CR) I shoot no more than 11 degrees of timing to them on pump gas boosted, at 20lbs I usually shoot 7 degrees to them up top. I have never come across one that wanted any more than that.
For reference, a stock 03/04 cobra engine with a simple piston swap to up the compression to 10:1 and the blower removed makes max tq at 14 degrees of timing and peak power with no more than 19 degrees up top. Some I've done made max power at 16 degrees up top.. this is all naturally aspirated.
On e-85 I shoot 22 degrees of timing to them up to 25lbs. Over that I usually pull a couple degrees from there and make a few pulls to see what they like.
This is all based on my personal experiences with 03/04 cobras. When I used to tune at 49performance in jackson,ms the owners there personally owned 7 or 8 of them over the years that were all basically shop cars I tuned. There was at least another 20 or so that came through for tunes there as well. Here in new orleans at my shop we have 6 of them that are pretty much shop cars (owners are like family). Not to mention we've had at least another 35+ 03/04 cobras come through the shop here for tunes. We currently have 7 here now getting work done. I've also remote tuned and done drivetrain swaps etc on many more of them over the years. Suffice to say I've done my fair share of testing and tuning on them to have a pretty good grasp.
Teksid Block. 9.6:1 CR. ARP Stuff... etc. Stock 04 Cobra Heads.
I wasn’t sure how to increase timing advance on the SCTx3 when tuners leave options unlocked, the direction wasn’t entirely too clear. I’m assuming he must’ve thought I already knew how to navigate completely around the SCTx3. Here lies why I asked the question on how to “increase timing on the device.” That’s really all I was getting at. I have since searched around and found some helpful items on the web that have answered some of these questions.
But yes, I’m well aware of Lidio & I have consulted him a few times. His direction to me was that, “if it’s going to be coming to me for tuning, please make sure everything is 100% mechanically sound and absolutely no issues.” He sorta told me how it’s a major inconvenience when customers bring their “builds” to him to tune that are “ready to go,” but when he gets started, there’s other issues to be addressed.
So before I even decide to give my car to him, I’m making sure absolutely everything is satisfied. From the minor to major modifications, maintenance, etc. engine related or not. Once that’s satisfied, I will consult him for a proper dyno tune.
This has sorta moved to another direction than intended from the initial posting of this thread. In this particular thread I was sorta seeking advice on just timing advance, etc. not too much direct tuning stuff, yet lol
Just input from others experience on what timing advances they’ve had experience with and what’s considered “conservative/aggressive.”
Also, my tuner sometimes can be a little bit slower in responding, as are most reputable remote tuners. Especially since you’re dealing with completely different lives, schedules, time zones, etc.
But yes +1, definitely will be hitting up Lidio bud!
Compression isn’t high at all. It’s at 9.6:1.
Good insight! I’m running strictly e85 only! & also would like to avoid anything that could run the risk of instances I’ve read about regarding “head lifting, etc.”
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