Tesla is dead

cidsamuth said:

I can't help but think there is a lot of scared butt hurt in this thread.

Tesla could fold tomorrow, but electric cars are here to stay, and I opine that THIS is what bothers most of us. Modifying our gas guzzlers will become a forgotten talent, as the electric cars run circles around our beasts and gap them off the line. Increasing performance will be all about software programing and not about bolting on loud, smelly, oily parts.

Sucks, but true. Can't stop progress.

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Then they can keep their progress.

Are people buying these cars so that they are reducing they carbon footprint? Or reducing their overall harmful impact to the earth? Or trying to get away from petroleum in their lives?

Made in America of parts made from strip mining rare earth minerals in places like China and Africa etc. The inverter/converters and the onboard computers, displays etc are some of the worst offending components that are dependent on those minerals. The amount of petroleum used to power those mining machines more than offsets the LIFETIME of the electric car on the road.

Id give the electric car crowd the green thing if the entire manufacturing process was 100% solar powered. But its not. Good old hydrocarbons to the rescue. The amount of energy required to smelt and purify the raw materials into usable stock for battery production and the computer circuitry is bonkers.

Nothing against their performance, because they are impressive. But if you think that youre green because a fraction of the power in the US used to charge these things is from renewable, are we supposed to forget the other massive percentage that its likely from natural gas plants or coal back east? If you live in a place thats powered by nuclear, then Ill give that to you.

Until these things get 400 miles a charge, and a full recharge of the pack takes less than 5 minutes, its a gimmick. Dont get me wrong, we will probably eventually get there, but its a dirty little secret that these "green machines" are anything but.

lexustech48 said:

Then they can keep their progress.

Are people buying these cars so that they are reducing they carbon footprint? Or reducing their overall harmful impact to the earth? Or trying to get away from petroleum in their lives?

Made in America of parts made from strip mining rare earth minerals in places like China and Africa etc. The inverter/converters and the onboard computers, displays etc are some of the worst offending components that are dependent on those minerals. The amount of petroleum used to power those mining machines more than offsets the LIFETIME of the electric car on the road.

Id give the electric car crowd the green thing if the entire manufacturing process was 100% solar powered. But its not. Good old hydrocarbons to the rescue. The amount of energy required to smelt and purify the raw materials into usable stock for battery production is bonkers.

Nothing against their performance, because they are impressive. But if you think that youre green because a fraction of the power in the US used to charge these things is from renewable, are we supposed to forget the other massive percentage that its likely from natural gas plants or coal back east? If you live in a place thats powered by nuclear, then Ill give that to you.

Until these things get 400 miles a charge, and a full recharge of the pack takes less than 5 minutes, its a gimmick. Dont get me wrong, we will probably eventually get there, but its a dirty little secret that these "green machines" are anything but.

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Let's be realistic.

Name any industry green or otherwise that did not have to lean on it's preceding technology to usher in new tech?

I guarantee they used ox/horses to help transfer parts when automobiles were just starting to take off. I bet they used steam powered ships and all matters of transportation to support the development of the gasoline powered automobile.

You can't hold new technology hostage to it's preceding environment. If you do, then no progress will be made, ever. Tesla is a start. The other companies to follow and the improved manufacturing processes that will come of it will ultimately be what benefit us as a planet.

IronSnake said:

Let's be realistic.

Name any industry green or otherwise that did not have to lean on it's preceding technology to usher in new tech?

I guarantee they used ox/horses to help transfer parts when automobiles were just starting to take off. I bet they used steam powered ships and all matters of transportation to support the development of the gasoline powered automobile.

You can't hold new technology hostage to it's preceding environment. If you do, then no progress will be made, ever. Tesla is a start. The other companies to follow and the improved manufacturing processes that will come of it will ultimately be what benefit us as a planet.

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Find me a truly "green" battery, then we can talk about how electric cars are going to "benefit us as a planet".

So tired of hearing people drone on and on about the benefits of hybrid and electric cars for the environment, when they don't consider the COMPLETE life cycle of the car and ALL its components. Newsflash! Those batteries you're dumping in your local landfill are worse for the environment than just about anything on your gas guzzler. But hey, keep telling yourself otherwise if it helps you sleep at night, or helps you feel morally superior.

Coiled03 said:

Find me a truly "green" battery, then we can talk about how electric cars are going to "benefit us as a planet".

So tired of hearing people drone on and on about the benefits of hybrid and electric cars for the environment, when they don't consider the COMPLETE life cycle of the car and ALL its components. Newsflash! Those batteries you're dumping in your local landfill are worse for the environment than just about anything on your gas guzzler. But hey, keep telling yourself otherwise if it helps you sleep at night, or helps you feel morally superior.

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Preach.

IronSnake said:

Let's be realistic.

Name any industry green or otherwise that did not have to lean on it's preceding technology to usher in new tech?

I guarantee they used ox/horses to help transfer parts when automobiles were just starting to take off. I bet they used steam powered ships and all matters of transportation to support the development of the gasoline powered automobile.

You can't hold new technology hostage to it's preceding environment. If you do, then no progress will be made, ever. Tesla is a start. The other companies to follow and the improved manufacturing processes that will come of it will ultimately be what benefit us as a planet.

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Difference here is that the materials for these cars at end of life are MUCH more toxic than the average car/truck. Let alone the stuff that may have to happen to get the range up and charge time down.

Its going to take a pretty good scientific breakthrough on electrical storage thats a much greener solution to make the "green" argument for electric cars valid.

My future kids and definitely my grandkids will see a day where this stuff is better and the norm. Their dad and grandpa will still be rolling in his gas guzzling (well, preferably ethanol guzzling) internal combustion engine. Because **** progress.

Coiled03 said:

Find me a truly "green" battery, then we can talk about how electric cars are going to "benefit us as a planet".

So tired of hearing people drone on and on about the benefits of hybrid and electric cars for the environment, when they don't consider the COMPLETE life cycle of the car and ALL its components. Newsflash! Those batteries you're dumping in your local landfill are worse for the environment than just about anything on your gas guzzler. But hey, keep telling yourself otherwise if it helps you sleep at night, or helps you feel morally superior.

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100% agree. The true answer is solar powered cars. But that is FAR away. probably 75-100 years, if we haven't self destructed hahaha.

I chuckle when the company has to issue another 2.7B in debt to keep itself afloat and people continue to believe this is the answer. Shortly after the 2.7B announcement, Musk didn’t even talk about becoming profitable in car manaufacturing. Some top stock analysts have revised their outlook to negative. One had a price target of $185 on the stock.

He is a carnival snake oil salesman. W

VegasMichael said:

I'm talking about Musk.
Buffet takes people's money and gives them back more. Musk takes money(subsidies) and gives people a depreciating entity along with empty promises. I'm not against electric cars I just don't like Musk.

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Buffet may be a good investor but he does not produce or manufacture anything himself. His acquired companies that do that. If you asked him to bolt something on, use a screw driver or engineer something himself I doubt he would be any good. I have more respect for people that can engineer stuff, create things, do things with their hands. I don't really like smooth talkers. Buffet is one of those. He was a fast talker. Con men are also fast talkers. Mr. Sales Man Buffet.

"By 1960, Buffett operated seven partnerships. He asked one of his partners, a doctor, to find ten other doctors willing to invest $10,000 each in his partnership. Eventually eleven agreed, and Buffett pooled their money with a mere $100 original investment of his own."

^^^ Sounds kind of like a Ponzi scheme. If his investments did not work out it could have been. He would have needed more "investors" to pay off the original ones.

Warren Buffett - Wikipedia

Berkshire Hathaway Gets Slapped with an $18 Million Lawsuit

Looks like Tesla is crashing.

tistan said:

Looks like Tesla is crashing.

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not just them. Market is unstable right now because of china/US tariff war. it will settle down after a month or 2.

quad said:

Buffet may be a good investor but he does not produce or manufacture anything himself. His acquired companies that do that. If you asked him to bolt something on, use a screw driver or engineer something himself I doubt he would be any good. I have more respect for people that can engineer stuff, create things, do things with their hands. I don't really like smooth talkers. Buffet is one of those. He was a fast talker. Con men are also fast talkers. Mr. Sales Man Buffet.

"By 1960, Buffett operated seven partnerships. He asked one of his partners, a doctor, to find ten other doctors willing to invest $10,000 each in his partnership. Eventually eleven agreed, and Buffett pooled their money with a mere $100 original investment of his own."

^^^ Sounds kind of like a Ponzi scheme. If his investments did not work out it could have been. He would have needed more "investors" to pay off the original ones.

Warren Buffett - Wikipedia

Berkshire Hathaway Gets Slapped with an $18 Million Lawsuit

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what? you're mad because he can invest in the right companies? lol ....

tistan said:

Looks like Tesla is crashing.

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Or Tesla automated crashes.....

nxhappy said:

not just them. Market is unstable right now because of china/US tariff war. it will settle down after a month or 2.

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It will, but Tesla has been teetering for months now. I read something during the last time the stock went down to around 250 a share, that tesla stock needs to be above $260 or $280 (can't remember exactly) for them to be able to pay the bills.

Coiled03 said:

Find me a truly "green" battery, then we can talk about how electric cars are going to "benefit us as a planet".

So tired of hearing people drone on and on about the benefits of hybrid and electric cars for the environment, when they don't consider the COMPLETE life cycle of the car and ALL its components. Newsflash! Those batteries you're dumping in your local landfill are worse for the environment than just about anything on your gas guzzler. But hey, keep telling yourself otherwise if it helps you sleep at night, or helps you feel morally superior.

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Film capacitors are about as clean as you can get but they aren't good for this type of application. Fast charge/discharge and that's about it. Any -hydride battery is horrible for the environment both during production and in waste form.

I need to reconnect with some of my old colleagues who jumped ship to work for Tesla during the 2011-2014 recruitment/poaching blitz. Tesla was poaching all of the best engineers they could. I even worked with them a few times. Very smart people that started out not knowing squat about automotive design/manufacturing, learning it through the "crash course" method. (meaning, they were blank slate in the beginning days, "yeah that's cool, I'm cool with it" was often heard in review meetings, then they transitioned into being more strict and analytical of mfg processes). It's actually a shame if Tesla isn't doing that well, because now they KNOW what they're doing manufacturing-wise. They actually embraced a lot of technology that other OEMs are nervous about.

Darpa has a new type of battery that they are working on in conjunction with Tesla. If it is what I am hearing and can do what it is supposed to, it will increase capacity to weight ratio dramatically.

Apparently there is some new manufacturing process for lithium batteries that make them like 1/10 the price from before.

Also, a large amount of Tesla batteries are recycled. They have been using partially recycled batteries since the model S came out and they are getting better at refining the entire process. I don't know if it's finished yet, but they were building a recycling plant in Nevada for the batteries alone.

VW apparently has a battery recycling plant too.

Local station had a piece about how the recycle biz has one plant burn down a month because of people throwing lithium batteries in the recycle bins. Showed how they developing off site controlled foam cannons that are mounted in the ceiling of facilities.

Tesla will 'disappear' or 'lose 80%' of its value, predicts NYU professor

I like scott galloway. He may be reaching a bit but anyway... time will tell

Read his book The Four if you're into that stuff.

Wilson & Co said:

Tesla will 'disappear' or 'lose 80%' of its value, predicts NYU professor

I like scott galloway. He may be reaching a bit but anyway... time will tell

Read his book The Four if you're into that stuff.

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I love Galloway. His beatdown on WeWork is savage.

tesla is going to be selling a **** ton of cars to Kali. Pretty soon the gas will be $5 a gallon. And I wont be here mwuhahahaha