Starting an LLC?

RedVenom48

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Question for all the entrepreneurs here on SVTP: Whats the best way to start an LLC? Idea is to start selling race grade ethanol fuel (E70-E83) mixed from local ethanol production and unleaded race fuel. Small batches at first with me as a guinea pig and see if there is any demand in my area.

***EDIT*** Im thinking blending my own is going to complicate things a lot more than I need my life to be. Buying wholesale pre blended "flex fuel" from a local fuel terminal would probably make my life a lot easier.

Its going to start out as a sole proprietorship ***EDIT*** (LLC not Sole proprietor) at first, perhaps bringing my lady in as a company officer down the line. Ive got an idea for a company name and DBA branding too. Id imagine consulting with a local business attorney would be a good idea, and obviously review AZ state fuel retail regulations and licensing.

Any help or a point in the right direction is appreciated!
 
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DSG2003Mach1

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registering an LLC is usually pretty darned simple but for the industry you're describing I would be hedging my bets to make sure Im protected if anything goes wrong in the business. Piercing the corporate veil is a possibility.

Your real challenge will be all the environmental and insurance compliance/expenses handling fuel
 

SID297

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Depends on your state's laws. In some states you just fill out a form and send it in with a check. In others you need an attorney to file the paperwork.

Sole proprietorship = unlimited personal liability. You want nothing to do with that.

Working with fuel is going to have it's own set of headaches.
 

RedVenom48

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registering an LLC is usually pretty darned simple but for the industry you're describing I would be hedging my bets to make sure Im protected if anything goes wrong in the business. Piercing the corporate veil is a possibility.

Your real challenge will be all the environmental and insurance compliance/expenses handling fuel

This was my initial though as well. Id initially be at 110 gallons at a time, as thats the max transportable without needing to be placarded and licensed. Keep it simple, small etc. If there is demand for more, explore whats needed for licensing and proper transport protocol.

Depends on your state's laws. In some states you just fill out a form and send it in with a check. In others you need an attorney to file the paperwork.

Sole proprietorship = unlimited personal liability. You want nothing to do with that.

Working with fuel is going to have it's own set of headaches.

Hmm, in that case no Sole Proprietorship. I incorrectly believed an LLC and sole proprietorship were the same or similar. Looks like i want an LLC at a minimum.
 

BlckBox04

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if it's feasible I think safest best is to find a lawyer also
 

CobraBob

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I did mine using a service (incorporate.com I believe) for a fee of around $100. I could have easily have done it myself, but I chose to do it that way since I had never filed for an LLC before. I then used that service (around $200 for a year) to monitor my reporting/filing requirements (such as my Annual Report) for the first year. I quickly realized that I could easily do the filings myself. So I created a Procedures Manual and documented all of my required filings, payments/fees and reports. It's all nice and neat. I also maintain a calendar on what's required, and when, with reminders set. Really not hard at all. Why pay someone for something I can easily do. I save about $200 a year doing my own reporting/filings.

That said, I'm sure there are industries that have more stringent reporting and filing where a paid service might be recommended to help with the reporting and filing.

Sounds like since you're dealing with flammable fuel you'd wise to consult with an attorney who specializes in forming LLCs. He can check your local code to see what issues you might have to deal with before venturing out with your LLC. You should find out if your town has any special requirements for storing fuel. Insurance?
 

DSG2003Mach1

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I think we paid around 1200 here in FL to have an attorney do it which included getting the tax ID, a corporate book with generic bylaws, operating agreement, stock certificates, corporate seal etc.. This was last yearr
 

Screw-Rice

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Setting up the LLC isn't too bad, triple check your laws for selling fuel, and get a few insurance quotes, something involving fuel I am guessing isn't going to be cheap to insure. Be very clear on what it is you're doing, don't need a miscommunication if someone comes to you saying they lost a $10k+ engine because of fuel and not have insurance.
 

RedVenom48

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Your ethanol source is willing to sell 100 gallons at a time?
To clarify, its a potential source. Pinal Energy supplies the ethanol for motor fuel here in the Phoenix area. About a year ago I made an inquiry about a purchase of ethanol for private use and was told that they would want to deal with a business entity. Thats where I left it, but the idea has been in the back of my mind. Especially after Lund essentially told me the Phoenix ethanol at the pump was shit, lol.

This idea could be the start of something big, it could end up just being a way for me to supply myself and my GT500 the best ethanol for the lowest price, or the company could fold after its proven not feasible in any capacity.
 

Way2QWK

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I started my business in 2013 so my memory may be foggy but aside from most of the info above....

A few extras..
State law requires you have to pay for statutory agent services (I pay $75 year from a place called Arizona Statewide Paralegal) They are used to receive paperwork if your LLC is ever sued.

Also state law in 2013, I had to pay for an ad in a local county paper to make the public aware of my newly formed LLC. I checked around all local papers and found a small town that charged way less than anyone in Tucson wanted.

I would not pay anyone to form your company (LegalZoom). Its actually pretty easy to do your self. Most everything is on .gov websites.

Good Luck...

I just tested local Flex fuel at the pump in 2 Tucson stations and it was E90. Is Phoenix really only E55?
 

coposrv

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Keep this quiet and under the radar and sell to a small group. Not worth the hassle of transporting fuel for a tiny margin. Do you want to make money?


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apex svt

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To clarify, its a potential source. Pinal Energy supplies the ethanol for motor fuel here in the Phoenix area. About a year ago I made an inquiry about a purchase of ethanol for private use and was told that they would want to deal with a business entity. Thats where I left it, but the idea has been in the back of my mind. Especially after Lund essentially told me the Phoenix ethanol at the pump was shit, lol.

This idea could be the start of something big, it could end up just being a way for me to supply myself and my GT500 the best ethanol for the lowest price, or the company could fold after its proven not feasible in any capacity.

I work in the fuel industry. Most fuel sources want big contracts to sell, for obvious reasons. Arizona only has a few fuel terminals, which will make sourcing more difficult.
 

CobraBob

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Arizona Corporation Commission:

I started my business in 2013 so my memory may be foggy but aside from most of the info above....

A few extras..
State law requires you have to pay for statutory agent services (I pay $75 year from a place called Arizona Statewide Paralegal) They are used to receive paperwork if your LLC is ever sued.

Also state law in 2013, I had to pay for an ad in a local county paper to make the public aware of my newly formed LLC. I checked around all local papers and found a small town that charged way less than anyone in Tucson wanted.

I would not pay anyone to form your company (LegalZoom). Its actually pretty easy to do your self. Most everything is on .gov websites.

Good Luck...

I just tested local Flex fuel at the pump in 2 Tucson stations and it was E90. Is Phoenix really only E55?
Wow, Arizona has some tough LLC laws. I am able to act as my own Agent in CT. I am authorized to provide my own services, saving a few hundred dollars a year. No newspaper ad required here.
 

RDJ

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Question for all the entrepreneurs here on SVTP: Whats the best way to start an LLC? Idea is to start selling race grade ethanol fuel (E70-E83) mixed from local ethanol production and unleaded race fuel. Small batches at first with me as a guinea pig and see if there is any demand in my area.

Its going to start out as a sole proprietorship at first, perhaps bringing my lady in as a company officer down the line. Ive got an idea for a company name and DBA branding too. Id imagine consulting with a local business attorney would be a good idea, and obviously review AZ state fuel retail regulations and licensing.

Any help or a point in the right direction is appreciated!
You are likely to have more problems passing EPA Regs than setting up you LLC.
 

RedVenom48

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Arizona Corporation Commission:

I started my business in 2013 so my memory may be foggy but aside from most of the info above....

A few extras..
State law requires you have to pay for statutory agent services (I pay $75 year from a place called Arizona Statewide Paralegal) They are used to receive paperwork if your LLC is ever sued.

Also state law in 2013, I had to pay for an ad in a local county paper to make the public aware of my newly formed LLC. I checked around all local papers and found a small town that charged way less than anyone in Tucson wanted.

I would not pay anyone to form your company (LegalZoom). Its actually pretty easy to do your self. Most everything is on .gov websites.

Good Luck...

I just tested local Flex fuel at the pump in 2 Tucson stations and it was E90. Is Phoenix really only E55?

I was speaking with a tuner here in Phoenix (Arizona Elite Tuning). Told me the situation is getting better than it was, but of the few we have, many are near the minimum Ethanol content per the flex fuel standard. This all went to shit when AZ HB2171 removed the term "E85" and replaced with Flex Fuel.

Keep this quiet and under the radar and sell to a small group. Not worth the hassle of transporting fuel for a tiny margin. Do you want to make money?


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com

Too soon to know if this is a business venture I want to take to the full retail level, or keep it small and sell to close friends. Realistically I want a cheaper source of high quality Ethanol for my car. Instead of blending, Im going to look into what it takes to buy wholesale.

I work in the fuel industry. Most fuel sources want big contracts to sell, for obvious reasons. Arizona only has a few fuel terminals, which will make sourcing more difficult.

Id believe it! I realize Id be a very small fry in a big ass potato patch. Just found a petroleum distributor that deals for VP race fuels. I may give them a call tomorrow for info on wholesale ethanol fuel.

Wow, Arizona has some tough LLC laws. I am able to act as my own Agent in CT. I am authorized to provide my own services, saving a few hundred dollars a year. No newspaper ad required here.

Not too terrible. $55 for filing to the state, $60 annually for a Statutory agent service and the public notice. Its basic to actually get the LLC off the ground, but not terrible.

You are likely to have more problems passing EPA Regs than setting up you LLC.

Good point. Reading through this thread made me realize that I need to focus on purchasing pre-blended product than trying to blend myself.

You boys and girls back East with bountiful supplies of pump E85 have no idea how lucky you are. :D
 

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