Cryotreating: Legit or snake oil?

RedVenom48

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Looking to rebuild my transmission this summer. While I have it torn apart, I was thinking about having the gears, mainshaft and countershaft cryo-treated.

Does cryo treating really strengthen parts or is it snake oil?
 

TERMN8U

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I own a heat treating company and I can tell you straight up, cryogenics are phenomenal. Anything that you want to perform better you should cryo-. Valve springs run cooler, wear resistance of materials increase, stresses
are greatly reduced in materials, The list goes on and on. Even snowmobile engines actually run the cooler during racing because the conductivity of the material is increased. Look into it and you’ll see that it is absolutely phenomenal. I cannot say enough about it.
Brakes run cooler, increased their life by at least double and also provide shorter stopping distances. They even resist warping much better.
 
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STAMPEDE3

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The only personal experience I have with it is years ago GHS guitar strings made a set called Sub-Zero. They were Cryo treated. I tried them and found them brighter and lasted longer than the standard GHS boomer strings I used.
I guess due to cost difference they never took off and they discontinued them.
My limited experience and research says if you can afford it, do it.
 

RedVenom48

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The only personal experience I have with it is years ago GHS guitar strings made a set called Sub-Zero. They were Cryo treated. I tried them and found them brighter and lasted longer than the standard GHS boomer strings I used.
I guess due to cost difference they never took off and they discontinued them.
My limited experience and research says if you can afford it, do it.
You reminded me of Dean Markley Blue Steel strings. I used them on my Stratocaster and they were fairly bright for a while. Havent played in years but I still have the sticker on my Strat case.

@TERMN8U Ill look into it. I found a company that does cryo treating here in Scottsdale. With a little luck and science, my TR6060 will hopefully live longer.
 

TERMN8U

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Glad to hear. The thing that has been so difficult about having Cryo take off is that you can’t see the difference by looking at it. People don’t usually document their results and therefor it can seem like snake oil to some... :(
 

ssj4sadie

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I read this as cryo-eating and was like WTF?! Thread is snake oil for me.

@TERMN8U do you have any scientific links to back up your claim?
 

TERMN8U

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Looking to rebuild my transmission this summer. While I have it torn apart, I was thinking about having the gears, mainshaft and countershaft cryo-treated.

Does cryo treating really strengthen parts or is it snake oil?
Cryogenic Treatment for Motorsports | Nitrofreeze
For more info on treating your components , you can check you this site. Lots of info here. There’s not much that you can think of that Cryo doesn’t make better.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ents_in_Transmission_Manufacturing_and_Design

Tons of information on the net. :)
 

Revvv

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The only personal experience I have with it is years ago GHS guitar strings made a set called Sub-Zero. They were Cryo treated. I tried them and found them brighter and lasted longer than the standard GHS boomer strings I used.
I guess due to cost difference they never took off and they discontinued them.
My limited experience and research says if you can afford it, do it.
DR Dragon Skins. I'm addicted.

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CV355

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DR Dragon Skins. I'm addicted.

I haven't tried those. I slapped a set of EB Slinky Cobalts on my PRS in 2012 and haven't changed them since. I've put at least 500 hours on them and they still play perfectly fine. Then again, you know my playing style. I don't thrash strings.

Back to cryogenics... In the case of tool steels, you can heat treat, cryo treat, and/or assign a surface coating. Cryo doesn't replace heat treatment- it just takes it further. When I design something out of a tool steel, I select the tool steel that has the appropriate properties for the application. Each one has a "Sweet spot" for hardness where you get high wear resistance but it doesn't become brittle. This is in part due to austenite to martensite transition- the crystal structure change. Part of the advantage of cryo is that the process is more "gentle" to the material, leaving less internal stresses. There's a 3-4% expansion rate from AS to MS transformation (which is why you shouldn't design thin walls on deep hardened materials). No matter what you do, overhardening results in materials sacrificing toughness in exchange for wear reduction. I witnessed an overhardened hydraulic press coupling literally explode one time. We made the replacement out of softer 4140PH (~32Rc vs 62Rc) and it never failed again to my knowledge. The best comparisons are: Glass is hard, rubber is tough.

Usually what I do is find that "sweet spot" for hardness (for instance, 56Rc for S7) and then have the detail coated with an anti-wear property, such as TiN, Chrome, molybdenum disulfide, etc. That way, you get a really tough detail with a ridiculously hard surface finish. Depends on the application though.

One of the coolest aspects of cryo treatment is that while we know "sort of why it works," it's still not understood 100%.
 
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72MachOne99GT

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Ever read a thread and have almost no clue what is happening in it?

I usually don’t, but this one is too science-y for me. I had zero clue you could make a metal stronger by freezing it... call me ignorant, just not something that has ever entered my simple mind.
 

apex svt

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Had a set of main drive gears on bravo XR’s cryogenic treated, they didn’t fail after. Definitely a legit thing.
 

LightningLou

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The mainshaft, first and second gear in my Audi S4 transmission are cryo treated and they have held up beautifully to many AWD 2-step launches and no-lift shifts with 600wtq or so on e85. It’s more of a preventive measure, but it definitely makes a significant difference in the life of highly stressed metal parts. Cryogenically freezing metal changes the molecular structure and increases the hardness of the metal. You are essentially creating a different type of metal by freezing it at -300 degrees or so. I can tell you first hand, that steel even looks different and my mainshaft had an almost “brushed” steel look to it after cryo treatment, whereas the stock shaft was very smooth and shiny in appearance. Almost looked like titanium afterwards instead of steel which was pretty awesome to see. Many IMSA race teams use it in numerous parts and especially with their carbon brake rotors to handle the numerous crazy heat cycles without cracking nearly as easy as they did prior. It’s cool technology, it does work, and is 100% legit.
 

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