Anyone else frustrated with Ford over the next GT500?

biminiLX

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Boss 302 / GT500?

Or did you just zing me with your sarcasm, J?
You've been zing'd :)
I do think that GT350/Boss 302 fill a similar void.
I just get annoyed how some seem to think there's some justification on delaying the GT500 for the GT350. There was clearly a market for GT500 separate from the GT350.
You know first hand how many GT500 guys went Hellcat, and the 50th anniversary of the GT500 and GT500KR both were sadly ignored.
Oh well, they'll still sell every one they make right?
-J
 

ON D BIT

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You've been zing'd :)
I do think that GT350/Boss 302 fill a similar void.
I just get annoyed how some seem to think there's some justification on delaying the GT500 for the GT350. There was clearly a market for GT500 separate from the GT350.
You know first hand how many GT500 guys went Hellcat, and the 50th anniversary of the GT500 and GT500KR both were sadly ignored.
Oh well, they'll still sell every one they make right?
-J
There was no delay!

Things take time to research design test create and produce, especially when dealing with a bunch of new technologies.

We are finding out now it is far more than either dodge nor gm went to building there cars. If that’s not good enough just buy a mustang gt blower and lowering springs it takes about a month to get everything dialed. Or get the zl1/hc.

After all less want means less adm.
 

biminiLX

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There was no delay!

Things take time to research design test create and produce, especially when dealing with a bunch of new technologies.

We are finding out now it is far more than either dodge nor gm went to building there cars. If that’s not good enough just buy a mustang gt blower and lowering springs it takes about a month to get everything dialed. Or get the zl1/hc.

After all less want means less adm.
It wasn’t delayed? Sure.
-J
 

ON D BIT

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It wasn’t delayed? Sure.
-J
It was not. It was always a 2020 vehicle. It was always going to be track focused.

But like I said anyone can build the car you wanted in about a month. 15 Mustang gt, whipple or Keene belle, lowering springs and sticky tires. It’s not hard at all.

As you said GM and Dodge both did this.
 

03cobra#694

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nutswing.jpg
 

ON D BIT

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June 12 to Oct 15 is 40 months to develop the GT350.
Nov 15 to oct 19 is 47 months to develop the 20 GT500.

I fail to see how Ford stalled or delayed this car. Yes it took about 6 months or 15% longer with this car than the 350.
I’m assuming the engineering is a tad bit more complicated that creating a simple 1320 car that only runs 10 secs at a time.

Porsche and Ferrari routinely take 5+ years between their top competition street cars. The GT2RS was a 7 year wait not 4.
 

tt335ci03cobra

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The 2007 gt500 took 3-4 years.

The 03 cobra took 2 years.

The 94 cobra was ready to go but wasn’t nearly as complicated.

The most complicated cobra ever, the 1977 Mustang 2 king cobra was ready 9 years after the 1968 428 cobra jet. A car capable of hemi comp in factory trim.

Thee thyme kneaded two produce thee 1977 KING COBRA sho’s Ford kneads thyme four grateness
 

Klay

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If the car remains stationary or only travels in a straight line, sure. Start throwing turns at speed in there, and that extra +/-400 lbs starts to make itself known. Let's say you weigh 200 lbs. Now let's say you're running on some sort of endurance course with lots of directional changes and other stresses on your knees and ankles. Now, let's say we strap an extra 20 lbs to your waist (or back) and put some grippy cleats on your feet. Now run that same course for 20 minutes and tell me your knees and ankles aren't feeling that "low percentage increase in weight." That weight increase isn't a 1:1 affair.

Lateral acceleration turns that 400 lbs up a few notches. If the tires aren't slipping, guess what's taking that extra load; the chassis and suspension. Race cars don't run lighter weight and welded seams for nothing.

I think where your analogy goes wrong is the assumption that adding weight to an existing figure is the same as something being designed to weigh a certain amount. To use your example, there is a difference when you suddenly add 20 lbs to a person who weighs 200 lbs compared to a person who worked out to hit 220 lbs. Person A would feel the extra heft and yes his body would get more fatigued or hurt quicker. Person B though wouldn't notice the extra weight because his body is accustomed to that weight.

Adding a blower and other aftermarket parts on a mustang gt will add weight. Your analogy would work there because the gt wasn't designed with that additional weight in mind. However, a gt500 designed around being 4100 lbs (as an example) will be more robust from the factory. So there is no reason to believe parts will fail sooner. Ford still has specific quality goals that the vehicle has to pass. Ford would just have to use beefier parts elsewhere to make up for the additional weight.
 
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Voltwings

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I think where your analogy goes wrong is the assumption that adding weight to an existing figure is the same as something being designed to weigh a certain amount. To use your example, there is a difference when you suddenly add 20 lbs to a person who weighs 200 lbs compared to a person who worked out to hit 220 lbs. Person A would feel the extra heft and yes his body would get more fatigued or hurt quicker. Person B though wouldn't notice the extra weight because his body is accustomed to that weight.

Adding a blower and other aftermarket parts on a mustang gt will add weight. Your analogy would work there because the gt wasn't designed with that additional weight in mind. However, a gt500 designed around being 4100 lbs (as an example) will be more robust from the factory. So there is no reason to believe parts will fail sooner. Ford still has specific quality goals that the vehicle has to pass. Ford would just have to use beefier parts elsewhere to make up for the additional weight.

It doesnt matter, more is still more.

More HP means suspension and chassis need to be beefier, which adds weight. Since the car now has more HP and weight it needs more brakes and rim / tire, which adds weight. Everything needing to be beefier consequently causes everything else to need to be beefier and the weight keeps going up.

Also, it's not strictly components but again the cost of consumables. A Gt500 will kill tires, brakes, ball joints, and other suspension components faster than a lighter car (when we're talking track driving applications). That is just a fact of physics that no amount of "engineering" will get around.
 

Klay

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It doesnt matter, more is still more.

More HP means suspension and chassis need to be beefier, which adds weight. Since the car now has more HP and weight it needs more brakes and rim / tire, which adds weight. Everything needing to be beefier consequently causes everything else to need to be beefier and the weight keeps going up.

Also, it's not strictly components but again the cost of consumables. A Gt500 will kill tires, brakes, ball joints, and other suspension components faster than a lighter car (when we're talking track driving applications). That is just a fact of physics that no amount of "engineering" will get around.

Again, that isn't necessarily true. A component or consumable is designed to a certain tolerance. Sure, there is a limit of how well something can be designed for a certain weight. I am not arguing that heavier weight is better.

I think you are underestimating just how well something can be designed for longevity. Unless your argument is that the parts of this new GT500 will fail or need to replaced sooner than previous GT500 models (that weigh less). If that is your arguement, then we will just have to agree to disagree.
 

csc427

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It doesnt matter, more is still more.

More HP means suspension and chassis need to be beefier, which adds weight. Since the car now has more HP and weight it needs more brakes and rim / tire, which adds weight. Everything needing to be beefier consequently causes everything else to need to be beefier and the weight keeps going up.

Also, it's not strictly components but again the cost of consumables. A Gt500 will kill tires, brakes, ball joints, and other suspension components faster than a lighter car (when we're talking track driving applications). That is just a fact of physics that no amount of "engineering" will get around.
Does a ‘13 GT500 destroy parts a ton quicker than a ‘13 gt when driven at the track? Haven’t really heard of a lot of 13-14 GT500 ball joints and suspension components being replaced regularly. Of course tires and brakes, but most of that surely would be due to the extra speed and torque. If that were the case, a 3200 lb c6 z06 should get roughly 25% more tire life than a 4000 lb GT500. That won’t be the case. It doesn’t work that way. Weight, no doubt, is important. But car manufacturers seem to know what they’re doing. Ford did just produce a gt350 that hangs with a much lighter gt3. Why think that this next car will perform less impressively?
 

rwleonard

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"Does a '13 GT500 destroy parts a ton quicker...?"

Yes, at least with respect to tires, pads, and rotors.
 

rwleonard

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It is not linear, it is worse. Not only will you be braking from higher speeds, you have more mass travelling at that higher speed. All of that eats pads, rotors and tires. Takes more work to change direction, too. Eats tires. A local Griggs installer told me a customer of his goes through enough in tires, pads, and rotors in a 2 day weekend to make a payment on a new Mustang GT. His point being the fast, heavy cars can be made to handle very well, but there is a price to be paid. Literally.
 

Kaneda

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Can't wait to finally see this car in just a month! This site deserves to finally have something concrete so salvate over! Car is gonna be insane.
 

BlksvtCobra01

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Can't wait to finally see this car in just a month! This site deserves to finally have something concrete so salvate over! Car is gonna be insane.

You act like this site is dead, it’s not maybe if you just didn’t come here to troll it wouldn’t seem that way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Voltwings

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Does a ‘13 GT500 destroy parts a ton quicker than a ‘13 gt when driven at the track? Haven’t really heard of a lot of 13-14 GT500 ball joints and suspension components being replaced regularly. Of course tires and brakes, but most of that surely would be due to the extra speed and torque. If that were the case, a 3200 lb c6 z06 should get roughly 25% more tire life than a 4000 lb GT500. That won’t be the case. It doesn’t work that way. Weight, no doubt, is important. But car manufacturers seem to know what they’re doing. Ford did just produce a gt350 that hangs with a much lighter gt3. Why think that this next car will perform less impressively?

I track on a fairly regular basis and am involved with people who track their mustangs on a fairly regular basis, so yes, from first hand experience that is exactly what I am saying. I know a guy who runs upwards of 500 whp and replaces ball joints every other weekend while running slicks. What you guys also fail to realize is that the stickier tires needed to handle this kind of mass also put more load and stress into components.

And no one is saying this car will not perform, no one is saying it will fall apart the second it hits a corner, but the fact of the matter is it IS heavy and heavy will always stress parts when tasked with acceleration, deceleration, turning, etc.

Again, this is basic physics and common sense, it really isn't debatable...
 

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