To tune or not to tune

Robot_trainer

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I had this post in the tuner section without any response so I'll try here. Im in the process of installing kooks 1-3/4 headers and catted green h pipe. I have a JLT cold air, Ford Racing throttle body, 170 thermostat and colder plugs. It has a 93 octane Lund tune. Im told the tune will support the headers without needing any changes. It will adapt fter a couple of drive cycles. I dont race the car, its just street driven. Is this correct, that I shouldnt need to do anything with the tune?
 

Robot_trainer

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I would recommend you use a wide-band to check your A/F.
The stock system on the 2013Shelby is wide band, no? I can see the A/F on the information screen in the center of the dash (albeit its not that accurate, but it should give a good idea whats happening). Or a hand held scan tool/SCT X4. I think what your saying is after the install, drive the car and if the AF is good a dyno tune is not really necessary, although I do understand It probably would squeeze out a few more HP numbers, which in my application a couple of HP here or there wouldnt really be noticed.
 

RBB

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Never hurts to send a log to verify everything looks okay
You'll most likely be fine without a new tune, but as boduke is saying I'd send a log to Lund to make sure everything looks good. It's been quite a while since I installed mine and the memory is a little hazy, but I recall him changing something in my tune.
 

pierce88

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Call Lund. There is certainly power to be gained by adding long tubes, even with the green cats...

Will the car be fine without? Yes probably. But would be silly with how expensive these motors are to not confirm with the guy doing the tuning...

-Pierce
 

Robot_trainer

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They say its fine with the existing tune they did and that it will re-learn after a couple of drive cycles. Just canvassing others that have actually done it and what they have seen.
 

96gt02

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Lund is the only company that does it this way (which is BS imo), everyone else will give you a new tune for headers but for some reason all their tunes have these mods baked in somehow. I would never use Lund personally but they seem to be the most popular among the masses so Id think you'll be fine but im not a fan of the way they do things.
 

Robot_trainer

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Lund is the only company that does it this way (which is BS imo), everyone else will give you a new tune for headers but for some reason all their tunes have these mods baked in somehow. I would never use Lund personally but they seem to be the most popular among the masses so Id think you'll be fine but im not a fan of the way they do things.

I've had the same tune for about 3 years. So far the car runs great. No hiccups, good drivability. I'm sure it's not as optimal as having it tuned since its a one size fits all deal.
 

CobraBob

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The stock system on the 2013Shelby is wide band, no? I can see the A/F on the information screen in the center of the dash (albeit its not that accurate, but it should give a good idea whats happening). Or a hand held scan tool/SCT X4. I think what your saying is after the install, drive the car and if the AF is good a dyno tune is not really necessary, although I do understand It probably would squeeze out a few more HP numbers, which in my application a couple of HP here or there wouldnt really be noticed.
Yeah, that is what I meant. So Lund is telling you the tune will learn the addition of the headers. You'll probably be fine, but you surely want to know 100% that is the case. So I understand you wanting to hear from other Lund tune users.

I know tunes aren't cheap, but if it were my car I'd probably be leaning towards a new tune from another tuner. For ease of future tune changes. JMO. You'll have to decide what you want to do.
 

Robot_trainer

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Yeah, that is what I meant. So Lund is telling you the tune will learn the addition of the headers. You'll probably be fine, but you surely want to know 100% that is the case. So I understand you wanting to hear from other Lund tune users.

I know tunes aren't cheap, but if it were my car I'd probably be leaning towards a new tune from another tuner. For ease of future tune changes. JMO. You'll have to decide what you want to do.

not necessarily those tuned by lund. Others that have the done the same thing using canned tunes, etc and there experiences. I suppose at the very least a datalog would be good to do. Having a local tune it is alway an option
 

raustin0017

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Not my experience with Lund. After installing the upper pully and TB, plugs I loaded the Lund tune. After I installed the ARH long tubes, they sent me another tune...for free. After I sent them a datalog they sent me another tune...for free.
Suggest you give them a call and they will hook you up.
 

Willie

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Lund is the only company that does it this way (which is BS imo), everyone else will give you a new tune for headers but for some reason all their tunes have these mods baked in somehow. I would never use Lund personally but they seem to be the most popular among the masses so Id think you'll be fine but im not a fan of the way they do things.

I'm in line right behind you.
Before I start, I'd like to make it absolutely clear that there is NOTHING that can be changed in the tune for performance gains. But there are several things that should be changed to maintain optimal operation for LT's (not shorties) >>

1) O2 Transport Delay Time should be increased,
2) Time Delay for Closed Loop for a properly heated O2 sensors,
3) Temp for Front HEGO to go Closed Loop is another change for properly heated sensors, and
4) Front O2 Heater Duty Cycle to use the built-in heater to our advantage.

So I'm sure you're wondering why referenced tuner does not change these? My guess is because they do not have to be, and why take time changing stuff that takes time and therefore $$$ out of their pocket?

I am a tuner, but actually purchased their tunes so I can analyze them (via datalogs). What I discovered, I believe, is typical of all tuners. And that is, you are NOT getting the best tune for YOUR car. That is a whole nother topic.
 
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Willie

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Im told the tune will support the headers without needing any changes. It will adapt fter a couple of drive cycles.

LOL..... How can the tables and scalars I mentioned above "adapt" (change)? They cannot. All these values are fixed and can never change.

I have absolutely NO problem going into tuning "specifics" on this forum, stuff that tuners will never do. I'm here to help everyone in an area that seems to be gray matter for most, and not just to make a buck....

Willie
 

96gt02

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I'm in line right behind you.
Before I start, I'd like to make it absolutely clear that there is NOTHING that can be changed in the tune for performance gains. But there are several things that should be changed to maintain optimal operation for LT's (not shorties) >>

1) O2 Transport Delay Time should be increased,
2) Time Delay for Closed Loop for a properly heated O2 sensors,
3) Temp for Front HEGO to go Closed Loop is another change for properly heated sensors, and
4) Front O2 Heater Duty Cycle to use the built-in heater to our advantage.

So I'm sure you're wondering why referenced tuner does not change these? My guess is because they do not have to be, and why take time changing stuff that takes time and therefore $$$ out of their pocket?

I am a tuner, but actually purchased their tunes so I can analyze them (via datalogs). What I discovered, I believe, is typical of all tuners. And that is, you are NOT getting the best tune for YOUR car. That is a whole nother topic.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions about them after all this time, its good to see someone who actually knows what they are talking about calling them out and confirming why again I would never consider using them with BS like this
 

boduke0220

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There is a reason lund holds a ton of records and is one of the best ( if not the best) tuners in the mustang world.
 

Willie

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There is a reason lund holds a ton of records and is one of the best ( if not the best) tuners in the mustang world.

Agreed, BUT do you think anyone else gets the tunes they use in their cars? Not a chance. I'll bet $1,000,000 no one else does. The tunes they sell are far more conservative than need be. But that's because they are in it to make a profit AND most importantly, cannot risk any one of their customers coming back to them saying, "My motor blew and it's because of your tune." They are not stupid by any means.

It's reasons such as this is why I tune myself and challenge everyone else to do the same. It's the only way to get the best tune for MY car, and this would be true for all of us if we all take the initiative to learn some!

Do you know what my very FIRST mod was, way back in 2008? Tuning software!

Willie
 

1 Alibi 2

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not necessarily those tuned by lund. Others that have the done the same thing using canned tunes, etc and there experiences. I suppose at the very least a datalog would be good to do. Having a local tune it is alway an option
.
.
As you're info shows you in Canada, your current tune is canned /"file" with tweeks.
If there is a local shop that knows how to tune, that would be the way to go.
Street tuning nets the best results, followed by a trip to the dyno for grooming.
Suspect Lund telling you you don't need a tune, is less about the customer & more about their workload..
 

boduke0220

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Agreed, BUT do you think anyone else gets the tunes they use in their cars? Not a chance. I'll bet $1,000,000 no one else does. The tunes they sell are far more conservative than need be. But that's because they are in it to make a profit AND most importantly, cannot risk any one of their customers coming back to them saying, "My motor blew and it's because of your tune." They are not stupid by any means.

It's reasons such as this is why I tune myself and challenge everyone else to do the same. It's the only way to get the best tune for MY car, and this would be true for all of us if we all take the initiative to learn some!

Do you know what my very FIRST mod was, way back in 2008? Tuning software!

Willie

I don’t think their tunes are conservative at all, my cars ( tvs 5.0, whipple 5.0, GT500, all on 93/e85) have seen average total timing in the tunes and always ran what they should at the track. Maybe they add less tip in timing or something but mine have always ran strong? Heck my coyote did 165 in the half with just a tvs on e85 and 10psi. I guess to each their own but I have zero bad things to say about Lund. They even Directly messaged me when they found out my motor was shot and gave me some solid advice
 

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