CJ manifold and E85, who has most NA power?

Elnrownr

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I truly believe this has been a fluke deal and if Ford doesn't warrant I'll toss good rods and pistons and let it eat

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Voltwings

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The 2015 has 8.5L?
I need to trade in my 6.2L 2016 then.
If you're adding the 2.FOUR liter twin screw IHI blower then it's 8.6L?
As Zemidici has mentioned, this engine is making a full probably underrated 707hp on 10psi and is proven to get more out of it reliably, and I'm talking 900rwhp thru an auto on E85.
Maybe I'm not a car guy, but I don't regret the Charger on second, daily driving a 200mph full size sedan averaging 18mpg in 17,000 miles of my driving has been impressive.
Let's get back to the GT350.
-J

Yes, that is how Positive displacement blowers work, so i was including the blower displacement. I did think it was a 2.3, didn't do my research. The fact of the matter remains though, and the fact that it's a 2.4 makes it even worse...

Being a car guy has nothing to do with it, i'm just on the "big engine with a big supercharger really isn't all that impressive" bandwagon. Agreed though, back to the GT350.
 

Elnrownr

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Turns out something went through the motor and chewed up the piston on #8 Ford Is supplying me with a new long block

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Saleen_1977

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where can I find a Cobra Jet and intake at a reasonable price? And, how much more better is it than a Boss intake?

thanks
 

ANGREY

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NOTHING is more better than a Boss intake.

"Unless you’re on a budget, the Cobra Jet manifold is far superior to the BOSS 302 in every way … well, except drivability. While the Cobra Jet isn’t known for idling well, it can be figured out by an experienced Coyote tuner."

https://www.fordmuscle.com/tech-sto...old-shootout-gt-gt350-boss-302-and-cobra-jet/

Keep in mind these tests are on a coyote, the disparities would probably be even greater with a 5.2 FPC given it's ability to rev 1k more where the CJ really begins to shine.
 

GT Premi

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"Unless you’re on a budget, the Cobra Jet manifold is far superior to the BOSS 302 in every way … well, except drivability. While the Cobra Jet isn’t known for idling well, it can be figured out by an experienced Coyote tuner."

https://www.fordmuscle.com/tech-sto...old-shootout-gt-gt350-boss-302-and-cobra-jet/

Keep in mind these tests are on a coyote, the disparities would probably be even greater with a 5.2 FPC given it's ability to rev 1k more where the CJ really begins to shine.

You didn't catch the joke.
 

sumfoo1

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Yes, that is how Positive displacement blowers work, so i was including the blower displacement. I did think it was a 2.3, didn't do my research. The fact of the matter remains though, and the fact that it's a 2.4 makes it even worse...

Being a car guy has nothing to do with it, i'm just on the "big engine with a big supercharger really isn't all that impressive" bandwagon. Agreed though, back to the GT350.

No, that is not how positive displacement superchargers work. you see, the 6.2 liter only fires every other rotation so is functionally only a 3.1 liter and then the drive ratio (2.36:1) on the 2.4 liter supercharger is what crams 5.664 liters of air into that 3.1 liter engine and makes boost.... that my friend is how a positive displacement supercharger works you'll notice that the displacement ratio 5.664/3.1 (1.827) is a very similar ratio to the boost pressure (14.7+11.6)/14.7 ratio (1.789) and the difference between the two is.... you guessed it! the efficiency loss of the compressor!
 

ANGREY

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No, that is not how positive displacement superchargers work. you see, the 6.2 liter only fires every other rotation so is functionally only a 3.1 liter and then the drive ratio (2.36:1) on the 2.4 liter supercharger is what crams 5.664 liters of air into that 3.1 liter engine and makes boost.... that my friend is how a positive displacement supercharger works you'll notice that the displacement ratio 5.664/3.1 (1.827) is a very similar ratio to the boost pressure (14.7+11.6)/14.7 ratio (1.789) and the difference between the two is.... you guessed it! the efficiency loss of the compressor!

I'm still trying to decide if this is a serious post or not.

1) All 4 stroke engines have the same constraint, so rather than cut every displacement value in half, let's just refer to them as is. A 6.2 Liter V-8 (4 STROKE) engine has a displacement of 6.2 liters. A 5.2 liter is 5.2 liters. A 5.0 liter is 5.0 liters.

2) Despite a bunch of smoke and mirrors, the bigger point is that the Dodge/Mopar lineup of motors are pretty sad for specific output. Cram whatever you want on top or before the intake, to get the amount of power out of such a large displacement engine is pretty pathetic, and as I've said earlier, reminiscent of 1990 tech.

Between not being able to rev much higher than a John Deere and having pushrods and 2 valves per, the engine and it's output are very yawn worthy.

One could argue that Dodge is prioritizing simplicity and cost and reliability/tried and true designs, but that goes out the window when you look at the cost of the Hellcat/Demon.

I will give Dodge props. I think Dodge knows most people aren't knowledgeable about cars. They see 707 hp and that's the extent of their ability to measure performance. They don't see the 4500 lb pig that's attached to.

A 400 hp Monza stripped to the bone is fast because it's LIGHT.

As I said earlier, go to ANY strip and ANY track and Dodges are RARELY if EVER the fastest cars there.

Or put another way, in order for Dodge to be on par with LS or Coyote/Chevy/Ford, they'd need to improve their specific output AS WELL AS THEIR POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO.

The ONLY thing Dodge has going for it outside of a clever marketing campaign is the whole 4 door sedan bit. I'm MUCH MUCH MUCH more impressed with the trackhawk than the Demon/Hellcat. An SUV that skins everything else is unique. A fat, bloated car that costs $80k and makes 800 hp with a blower and race fuel and runs mid 10's in the quarter mile would have been impressive in 1990. Today it's pretty underachieving.

There are 2018 GT's running 8's on stock tranny/motor. Not that 1320 times are everything, but that same car will outturn and outbrake a Charger/Challenger 24/7/365.

You can now buy a mustang GT/Camaro and have a dealer installed blower WITH A FULL WARRANTY for $25k less and have a car that will eat the Demon/Hellcat for lunch.

There's very very little that's impressive about a Demon/Hellcat. All my opinion.
 

sumfoo1

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I'm still trying to decide if this is a serious post or not.

1) All 4 stroke engines have the same constraint, so rather than cut every displacement value in half, let's just refer to them as is. A 6.2 Liter V-8 (4 STROKE) engine has a displacement of 6.2 liters. A 5.2 liter is 5.2 liters. A 5.0 liter is 5.0 liters.

2) Despite a bunch of smoke and mirrors, the bigger point is that the Dodge/Mopar lineup of motors are pretty sad for specific output. Cram whatever you want on top or before the intake, to get the amount of power out of such a large displacement engine is pretty pathetic, and as I've said earlier, reminiscent of 1990 tech.

Between not being able to rev much higher than a John Deere and having pushrods and 2 valves per, the engine and it's output are very yawn worthy.

One could argue that Dodge is prioritizing simplicity and cost and reliability/tried and true designs, but that goes out the window when you look at the cost of the Hellcat/Demon.

I will give Dodge props. I think Dodge knows most people aren't knowledgeable about cars. They see 707 hp and that's the extent of their ability to measure performance. They don't see the 4500 lb pig that's attached to.

A 400 hp Monza stripped to the bone is fast because it's LIGHT.

As I said earlier, go to ANY strip and ANY track and Dodges are RARELY if EVER the fastest cars there.

Or put another way, in order for Dodge to be on par with LS or Coyote/Chevy/Ford, they'd need to improve their specific output AS WELL AS THEIR POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO.

The ONLY thing Dodge has going for it outside of a clever marketing campaign is the whole 4 door sedan bit. I'm MUCH MUCH MUCH more impressed with the trackhawk than the Demon/Hellcat. An SUV that skins everything else is unique. A fat, bloated car that costs $80k and makes 800 hp with a blower and race fuel and runs mid 10's in the quarter mile would have been impressive in 1990. Today it's pretty underachieving.

There are 2018 GT's running 8's on stock tranny/motor. Not that 1320 times are everything, but that same car will outturn and outbrake a Charger/Challenger 24/7/365.

You can now buy a mustang GT/Camaro and have a dealer installed blower WITH A FULL WARRANTY for $25k less and have a car that will eat the Demon/Hellcat for lunch.

There's very very little that's impressive about a Demon/Hellcat. All my opinion.

Its not just serious its factually how the stuff works man. i'm not saying lets compare it as a 3.1 liter... (unless comparing to a wankle cause that damned thing is effectively a 2 stroke [nostroke]) i'm just saying at 100% volumetric efficiency... that's all she eats in a single revolution so it takes cramming more air than that into the engine to create boost. Whomever said you add blower displacement to engine displacement was factually incorrect. Other than efficiency a positive displacement supercharger with the same drive ratio (pulley sizes) will try to make the same hp on whatever engine you put it on for as long as the engine will hold it..... that's how a positive displacement supercharger works... not some add the displacement to what you already have phooey. Basically what i'm saying is, bolt that same blower on a honda with the same pulleys and its going to try to cram the same 5.664 liters of air into the engine and make how ever much boost it needs to to get that in there until the engine blows... Anyway back to fords!

What does the CJ, long tubes, off road x pipe combo make... the world needs to know.

it's a real shame no one is making even larger cams for these... i guess the market base isn't big enough to support it.
 

ANGREY

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Its not just serious its factually how the stuff works man. i'm not saying lets compare it as a 3.1 liter... (unless comparing to a wankle cause that damned thing is effectively a 2 stroke [nostroke]) i'm just saying at 100% volumetric efficiency... that's all she eats in a single revolution so it takes cramming more air than that into the engine to create boost. Whomever said you add blower displacement to engine displacement was factually incorrect. Other than efficiency a positive displacement supercharger with the same drive ratio (pulley sizes) will try to make the same hp on whatever engine you put it on for as long as the engine will hold it..... that's how a positive displacement supercharger works... not some add the displacement to what you already have phooey. Basically what i'm saying is, bolt that same blower on a honda with the same pulleys and its going to try to cram the same 5.664 liters of air into the engine and make how ever much boost it needs to to get that in there until the engine blows... Anyway back to fords!

What does the CJ, long tubes, off road x pipe combo make... the world needs to know.

it's a real shame no one is making even larger cams for these... i guess the market base isn't big enough to support it.

The cams are already about as maxed out as you can get. At this point, you could probably change the powerband and have something that makes more power, but at a cost of lower end or something along those lines, but that's why there's no longer a need for a cam with a large separation or lope at idle because the of the modern design, it's able to change the way the cams behave optimally based on all the conditions/inputs.

I was interested in the CJ as well, but it seems we'll have to wait till the next candidate:)

I'm still waiting to see the first 350 with a nitrous setup, which would be terrible for track purposes, but probably a very viable power adder due to the increased compression.
 

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