GT500 Will Kill GT350 Prices, No?
- Thread starter Kaneda
- Start date
We need to see the GT500's price first, my thought is why not buy a GT350 or GT350R and put a Whipple on that bad boy.
The 2013 GT500 did not kill the the 2013 Boss 302 prices. Two different purposes with those cars
This. Plus I am going to drive the crap out of my GT350 for many years and do not really care about resale. And look at Terminator prices - those are still running at close to 50% of their original MSRP for clean examples - 16 years later!
Did you mean 100%?
MSRP was 30s.
I wouldn't want to go near a $15,000 terminator. lololol
Has more to do with two different price ranges.
The new ZR1 isn't going to kill ZO6 pricing because they're in two different price ranges. Don't you think if the ZR1 was even remotely close to the Z06 that it would hurt sales?
Look at the pricing for the 350R and tell me where Ford is going to go with their pricing. Do you think people are going to pay near $100k for that car? Maybe some, but not a lot. At that price range there are a ton of other/different offerings.
And despite the rosey glasses, if the new 500 is anywhere close to the 350R pricing, it WILL depress their value. I happen to think Ford is simply going to issue an unofficial apology to all the 350 and 350R owners. I think the car will MSRP for right around where the 350R is now, which will obviously hurt both models, but hurt the R worse.
The same goes with the new Raptor. Does anyone honestly think that if Ford offers a new 7.0 liter raptor at or near the old MSRP that the value of those things won't get kicked in the crotch? It's even WORSE with the Raptor because the value of the original has been propped up by those who squint and frown at the thought a 6 and prefer the punch and sound of a V-8. To find an original gen raptor with less than 20k miles you're looking at $50k+ still. Once the new and improved 7.0 comes out, people are going to dump the TT models (and avoid buying them)
UNLESS, UNLESS....the new Raptor is $15k more than the current model pricing. With the 500, they don't have that option or they'll price themselves right out of any appreciable market numbers of buyers.
My thought is that it will all depend on Ford. If the new GT500 is primarilaly a straight line beast, prices on the 350 will be ok. If the 500 handles well with great straight line, the resale on 350's might be in jeoprody. Really doesn't matter to me, I love my 350 and the wife says this is it until she gets her show car.
Unfortunately cars depreciate and at the end of the day the GT500 isn't going to sell at 100k it will most likely be placed to offer better performance then the hellcat/ZL1 for similar money (70k) which like it or not crushes the value of a 350 along with the fact that its no longer being the fastest mustang offered. Yes gearheads will respect it for its track day performance and it will maintain a cult following but in the end a huge chunk of buyers go to the dealership and say get me the fastest one. Most likely clean low mile examples will be high 30's trending to lower 30's over the next few years. Nature of the beast every forum has felt that it can't happen to their car. Some enthusiasts (me included) will prefer the NA motor but most non enthusiast types will dump the 350 as soon as the 500 becomes available without adm. Look how well the Z28 sold vs the ZL1 people didn't care how much better the LS7 was it just didn't have a blower and I still remember my local dealer having a new one that was two years old for 20k under msrp. R VS GT500 will probably be a similar dynamic
I'm old enough to remember when people said the same thing about the GT500. Then the 13-14 came out. 30k for a low mile GT500 became the standard however on the plus side it never moved much from there.
I'm old enough to remember when people said the same thing about the GT500. Then the 13-14 came out. 30k for a low mile GT500 became the standard however on the plus side it never moved much from there.
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Not sure I agree. The GT500 is being built for a different purpose and though I do believe it'll handle well, it won't be as focused at specific things as the 350/R is.
There is also no way this car is going to sticker for less than the price of a 350. in fact I think it'll slot right under the cost of the 350R for the base car. I also expect to see upcharges for things like performance-specific packages, electronics/lux, etc.
It'll easily push into the 80-90K range. How? Look what Ford charges for a Raptor or an F350 Platinum diesel (100k). They think they'll get it and if it performs, people will pay. In fact, I fully expect with as many people here who are bellyaching about the timeline for this car that they're just itching to pay that ADM as well, right fellas? lol
The 350 will always stay a special car. The balance, special engine, performance ability vs the competition at launch, and one thing you're likely not considering...Europe.
Europeans love Mustangs, and especially ones that can handle and the GT350 is the pinnacle and official unobtanium there. I expect to see more 350s find their way across the pond soon. There are only so many places the GT500 would find use, but the 350 is a very usable DD.
No, it won't appreciate for another 20-30 years, and it'll continue to come down in value. It'll ALWAYS be more valuable than any other trim Mustang, aside from other Shelby product. No, you won't see 20K GT350s anytime soon, nor will you see them in the low 30s unless ragged out and/or high mile buy-backs.
If you look at average values of GT350s vs GT500s in the late 60's model years, the 350 is worth more, even though the 500 was more car.
Balance matters, often just as much or more so, than power, to many people.
Just my opinion....
There is also no way this car is going to sticker for less than the price of a 350. in fact I think it'll slot right under the cost of the 350R for the base car. I also expect to see upcharges for things like performance-specific packages, electronics/lux, etc.
It'll easily push into the 80-90K range. How? Look what Ford charges for a Raptor or an F350 Platinum diesel (100k). They think they'll get it and if it performs, people will pay. In fact, I fully expect with as many people here who are bellyaching about the timeline for this car that they're just itching to pay that ADM as well, right fellas? lol
The 350 will always stay a special car. The balance, special engine, performance ability vs the competition at launch, and one thing you're likely not considering...Europe.
Europeans love Mustangs, and especially ones that can handle and the GT350 is the pinnacle and official unobtanium there. I expect to see more 350s find their way across the pond soon. There are only so many places the GT500 would find use, but the 350 is a very usable DD.
No, it won't appreciate for another 20-30 years, and it'll continue to come down in value. It'll ALWAYS be more valuable than any other trim Mustang, aside from other Shelby product. No, you won't see 20K GT350s anytime soon, nor will you see them in the low 30s unless ragged out and/or high mile buy-backs.
If you look at average values of GT350s vs GT500s in the late 60's model years, the 350 is worth more, even though the 500 was more car.
Balance matters, often just as much or more so, than power, to many people.
Just my opinion....
No. And you can never cross compare how Camaros sell to how Mustangs sell. High end Camaros don't have that certain something that high end Mustangs do. Not to mention, the Z/28 was WAY overpriced. That was a hard sell right out of the gate when you could buy a brand new C6 Z06 for the same money! The lack of a blower had nothing to do with it. That dealer probably still had the Z/28 at $20K below MSRP because it was still overpriced at that price when you consider customers could walk in and buy a 6th gen SS 1LE for $10K less than that and get better all around performance on top of it. The Z/28 was a great car released at the wrong time and at the wrong price.
As far as the new GT500 affecting GT350 values, it might have a small affect on standard GT350s, but the R is made in small enough numbers that it won't be affected one bit. Just this past weekend, I was stopped at a light in my R, and a guy driving an SN95 spotted it. His eyes bugged out, and his jaw nearly fell into his lap! It was kind of funny. Remember, there are still TONS of people out there who want a GT350. With them rushing in to buy up used ones, the demand will still outstrip supply. That will keep the values up.
What you should be looking for is an influx of previous model GT500s. Even then, the price of the new GT500 will be so high that it won't have much affect on the older cars' values.
The new Raptor is going to destroy both the current gen Raptor AND the original gen. The original gen raptor values were propped up because lots of people preferred the V-8 over the TT V-6.
The only way the current gen Raptors (and the O.G.) don't plummet in value is if the new Raptor is $20k over what a current gen will cost you now. Then potential buyers will naturally perform the value analysis and determine whether or not the extra squeeze is worth having a 7.0 V8.
The same is going to be true with the 500. Price matters. Sure, there are a few collector's and emotional buyers that favor uniqueness, scarcity, etc, etc. But MOST people behave normally when it comes to purchases. They look at the price difference, evaluate whether or not there's a real (or perceived) performance difference and run the numbers and make their choice.
It's absolutely what ran the Camaro out of business the first time. Why would people buy a top model Camaro when they were nearly at the same cost as the base Vette?
If the 500 is everything speculated and it's within striking distance (or even) of the price of a 350R, the value of the R WILL drop. Period. End of debate. That drop will also have a domino effect and push the value of the base 350 as well (if the going rate for a barely used R drops $10k, all the sudden it enters the realm of someone shopping for a new 350. It's not that far of a stretch anymore).
As I've said numerous times, Ford COULD price the 500 upward of $100k. But the market for "muscle" cars or even track cars starts to shrivel with every climbing digit. So unless Ford decided that the 500 is going to be some very limited specialty vehicle that they sell half the numbers (but make twice as much profit) then that's the only way our 350's don't take a beating in value. This is possible. Some may even say likely.
The only way the current gen Raptors (and the O.G.) don't plummet in value is if the new Raptor is $20k over what a current gen will cost you now. Then potential buyers will naturally perform the value analysis and determine whether or not the extra squeeze is worth having a 7.0 V8.
The same is going to be true with the 500. Price matters. Sure, there are a few collector's and emotional buyers that favor uniqueness, scarcity, etc, etc. But MOST people behave normally when it comes to purchases. They look at the price difference, evaluate whether or not there's a real (or perceived) performance difference and run the numbers and make their choice.
It's absolutely what ran the Camaro out of business the first time. Why would people buy a top model Camaro when they were nearly at the same cost as the base Vette?
If the 500 is everything speculated and it's within striking distance (or even) of the price of a 350R, the value of the R WILL drop. Period. End of debate. That drop will also have a domino effect and push the value of the base 350 as well (if the going rate for a barely used R drops $10k, all the sudden it enters the realm of someone shopping for a new 350. It's not that far of a stretch anymore).
As I've said numerous times, Ford COULD price the 500 upward of $100k. But the market for "muscle" cars or even track cars starts to shrivel with every climbing digit. So unless Ford decided that the 500 is going to be some very limited specialty vehicle that they sell half the numbers (but make twice as much profit) then that's the only way our 350's don't take a beating in value. This is possible. Some may even say likely.
The '03 Cobra didn't affect the '00 Cobra R's value. The '13 GT500 didn't affect the Laguna Seca's value. The new GT500 won't affect the GT350R's value.
You need to look broader. As the price digits rise, those price markets get more and more heavy with track and track capable cars.
The termi and the '00 R weren't just different cars, they were orders of magnitude apart in price. Terrible example. One was a HIGHLY HIGHLY rare car track focused with a big V-8 and the other was a roots blown muscle car.
Not only were they not comparable in terms of performance, the prices couldn't have been more different.
If what everyone suspects the 500 will be, it will most likely OUTPERFORM the 350R at the track. What the 500 lacks in "balance" and all the other rosey terms we tell ourselves, the 500 will certainly makeup for in grunt. The current stigma/detractor of the current 500's (chief one anyway) is that it's a one lap wonder, with bad brake fade and less than docile manners.
Compare that to a new 500 that features much BETTER brakes (comparable to the 350 and better than the previous 500), magnetic suspension, possible CF wheels, (coolers?). Even if Ford leaves out the coolers and puts all the other tech improvements from the 350 series on it, with the blower, the 500 is going to be formidable not just in a straight line, but turning and braking as well.
Without coolers, will it survive extended harsh track abuse? Probably not, but it's enough for people to feel like the car performs BETTER in every aspect, (not just street/strip driving).
Put those two cars in the same price range and despite whatever you hope, it's GOING TO DRAW POTENTIAL BUYERS AWAY FROM THE 350/R. Not all, but certainly SOME, maybe even A LOT. That doesn't even account for the number of people that dump their current 350/R in favor of the new R. (at a loss). It's just the way of things.
Put the cost $20k above the other offerings and now people get back to sorting out whether or not the extra cash is worth the real/perceived performance difference. I just don't see how Ford can do that without losing money on the project. $100k/car is going to severely limit the number of people who can and WILL buy a mustang, even one as badass as what we all anticipate is the new 500.
The '00 R and '03 Cobra were not that far apart in performance, and the example IS valid. Now, think about all the extra "stuff" and enhancements being made to the new GT500. How do you think Ford is going to be able to price it near the GT350R? I'm not understanding why some of y'all are insisting that the GT500 will drive the value of the GT350s down. I gave examples where that DIDN'T happen in the past, and you say it doesn't matter today. What's changed other than the HP and MSRPs? The performance deltas are comparable throughout the years. Heck, the '13 GT500 and the Boss LS were neck and neck in track performance, yet the LS's value remained in tact and Ford sold every one of them.
Why the hope that GT350 values will tank? Is it because it will make them cheaper to buy for folks who couldn't/didn't want to pay the new price? I can almost guarantee you there won't be a rash of GT350Rs showing up on the used market when the GT500 is released. There probably won't even be that many GT350s coming back as trade-ins for it.
Have to agree with this. some ppl will want the new latest and greatest but the current 350 is too good to drop significantly. the fact that the GT350 isnt the fastest car on the road when it was released and obviously still that way shows that it is appealing to a certain crowd. If the current Shelby was the fastest one yet and another came out that is faster... this would have more of an effect on prices tanking. Some ppl just gotta have that new fastest and baddest thing out. The 350 was never the "most powerful" or "fastest mustang ever" and was NEVER advertised that way from the start.
As far as i know, the gt500 won't utilize the flat plane crank like the voodoo. That's big. We're talking about a "first of its kind" engine setup (for a muscle car) that revs to 8250rpm, and handles like a 100k sports car. It's unique, and beautifully executed.
I, for example, am looking at getting a gt350, and don't foresee cross-shopping it with gt500, regardless of price differences. I think the 350/r will be appreciated long term for what it offers.
I, for example, am looking at getting a gt350, and don't foresee cross-shopping it with gt500, regardless of price differences. I think the 350/r will be appreciated long term for what it offers.
Yup...because some dude bugged out your R value is going nowhere!!!! HAHAHHA....PAH-LEASE. People, the GT500 is track focused, GT350 but MUCH MUCH faster with a 10-speed tranny that will destroy a 350R. FOR THE SAME PRICE. Let me repeat that...the GT500 will be the same price as a GT350R. Go on with how the R values will hold an it's a special car, blah, blah, blah. We've seen this all before. How special is a Boss 302 Laguna Seca? Or Camaro Z28? All 20-30K below original MSRP now. Same will happen to the R.
You are missing ONE huge thing. People had NO CHOICE but to buy the GT350 if they wanted Ford's latest top-dog Shelby. If Ford had offered both the 350 and 500 at the same time, which one gets the most attention and love. It's amazing to me how 350 owners live inside a vacuum and don't understand FORD has just spent 3 years making the 500 as good as handler as the 350 with the ability to outrun a ZL1/Z06 in a straight line. The 500 will be the fastest and best handling mustang ever and be the same price as a 350R. Hurts.
Find me a good or even average condition Boss 302 LS for $19K, and I'LL BUY IT!! What drugs are you on? When in the history of automobile-dom has a manufacturer come out with a better car and charged the same or less than the car it replaced?
Ok so will do mustang's. Boss 302 started at $42,000 five years later clean sub 40k mile cars go for high 20's. Hell i only got 25k for my 302 on trade in with 40k miles but thats trade in. They lost 1/3rd of their value in 5 years once the new car dropped. You take the GT350 starting price mulitply by .66 you get mid to high 30's depending on year. 10 years from now it will probably be low 30's where S197 GT500's are and it will most likely stay there.
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