Anyone else frustrated with Ford over the next GT500?

The 750 is in the fgt, the 700 would technically be a different trans.

That said, I think it’ll be the 10spd auto. Ford just finished that puppy and I think it makes more sense to use that for them.

I’d personally be put off by a dct but could still drive it pretty engagingly. An auto does little for me unless it’s tuned to shift harsh and bang hard basically always in a track or race mode regardless of throttle position. Put it in cruise or whatever and it shifts smooth. I don’t read up much on autos but I’d imagine a well tuned one with multiple modes could be programmed to work well.

tt335ci03cobra said:

The 750 is in the fgt, the 700 would technically be a different trans.

That said, I think it’ll be the 10spd auto. Ford just finished that puppy and I think it makes more sense to use that for them.

I’d personally be put off by a dct but could still drive it pretty engagingly. An auto does little for me unless it’s tuned to shift harsh and bang hard basically always in a track or race mode regardless of throttle position. Put it in cruise or whatever and it shifts smooth. I don’t read up much on autos but I’d imagine a well tuned one with multiple modes could be programmed to work well.

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The ZF 8 speed that Chrysler uses in their vehicles does just that. Put it in street mode and it’s butter smooth (barely noticeable). Put it in track mode and it’ll bang off shifts to make even the most hard core power shifter proud.


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the getrag 700 is the longitudinal, the one I think we get.

ford don't want to share it's halo mustang components with a halo camaro, even tho they designed them together
Also look how it does racing for the camaro, not that good unless your in a straight line. the dct will work wonders for the GT500.

conceptmachine said:

the getrag 700 is the longitudinal, the one I think we get.

ford don't want to share it's halo mustang components with a halo camaro, even tho they designed them together
Also look how it does racing for the camaro, not that good unless your in a straight line. the dct will work wonders for the GT500.

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I don't think Ford necessarily cares about sharing components they don't make for themselves. They shared the TR6060 with no problems with the GT500 before.

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that happens when options are limited, doesn't mean they necessarily wanted to, or Chevy even wanted to for that matter.
ford decided to take it a notch higher here.
sure they could have used the same one and kinda gritted there teeth a little.
but in general they see the advantage of the DCT for this application.

For the sake of discussion, we typically see DCT on turbo cars where a loss of boost between shifts matters, but on a supercharger, how much benefit is there really to a DCT?

Well, my wife’s E90 M3 was normally aspirated and the DCT was an awesome fit for the motor. If the new GT500 is available with a DCT, I may choose it. It is my thought that a DCT is the best of both worlds when deciding over a stick or Auto.

A8 Chrysler, Chevy and a10 ford all felt lazy to me in light driving. They all shift hard during spirited driving.

Dct’s are like an automated manual in that they shift when you tell them to, basically regardless of how hard or soft you are driving.

I don’t like when I tell an automatic to drop a gear and it does so a second later. Even if I’m just slowing softly for a distant stop light, do what the hell I gave an input for...

The best is Porsche pdk but that’s out of my sane budget big time.

tt335ci03cobra said:

A8 Chrysler, Chevy and a10 ford all felt lazy to me in light driving. They all shift hard during spirited driving.

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I mean that's kind of the point. I can switch my Hellcat A8 in 3 modes (4 if you count Eco) and it's comfortable while out with the wife and serious when I've had it on track.
I'd choose a DCT over the A10 for my GT500 but torque converter autos aren't all bad.
Paddle shift in track mode is nothing like the older delayed paddles I've had before (E55 AMG for ex.)
-J

tt335ci03cobra said:

A8 Chrysler, Chevy and a10 ford all felt lazy to me in light driving. They all shift hard during spirited driving.

Dct’s are like an automated manual in that they shift when you tell them to, basically regardless of how hard or soft you are driving.

I don’t like when I tell an automatic to drop a gear and it does so a second later. Even if I’m just slowing softly for a distant stop light, do what the hell I gave an input for...

The best is Porsche pdk but that’s out of my sane budget big time.

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But why even bother manual shifting an auto (DCT or TQ conv) at all? It's like pretending to drive a manual transmission car

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THE_EVIL_TW1N said:

But why even bother manual shifting an auto (DCT or TQ conv) at all? It's like pretending to drive a manual transmission car

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True, for drag use I let the Hellcat auto do its thing.
You would hope they can easily program best WOT shifts for peak acceleration runs/drag use.
Still, my tuner simplied changed his Hellcat to shift closer to 7000 than 6250-6500 and it was a huge gain.
It pulls cleanly to 7000rpm and runs much faster with higher shifts.
I still the DCT is for reliably shifting the boosted 5.2 over 7000rpm as it should cleanly pull to 8000rpm.
Good friends 5.0/6R TVS car shifts awesome at 8000+ and pulls clean that high.
Bench racing fun, looking forward to seeing car soon.
-J

How reliable is dct in the long run and how much maintenance is typically required?

It sounds expensive to me and do you have to change both clutches?
It seems too European to me for a mustang.

I’d still buy the manual if I was in the market for the new GT500 unless I was flipping cars every couple of years.

I think that, like most other things, the more complex the machine, the more expensive it is to make, maintain and repair. Also, the higher the probability of failure... I just chalk it up to the fact that our toys are getting more expensive.

I'm just glad it still has an ICE in it. LoL

You’d chose to shift an auto with the paddles because you like the act of driving. Going fast is easy. For a lot of people that’s all they want.

If you enjoy manipulating the car to go fast, you typically find the optimum shift points, and like to get the satisfaction of envolvement.

I’ve rarely met an excellent driver that prefers an auto (can’t recall any honestly) but almost everyone I know who is at best amateur with a stick much prefers auto. I know a guy in his 70’s with terrible knees that have won auto-x and drag racing gamblers cups who still drive a stick like it’s a lost art of the aliens. That said I know a hundred people+ 18 and up that can’t come close to driving like he can, and they prefer auto’s. It makes sense. If you can’t drive the car any better with a manual why bother. I get that, I don’t get defending that position as if the manual driver is always mistaken/foolish. There’s going fast, which is very enjoyable, and theirs truly driving the car, which is a different fun activity but also very rewarding. You can race down an easy hill on skis or cut some aggressive back country routes. Neither act is slandering the other, but it’s a lot easier to go fast straight/mild bends than running a double black diamond fast.

I think auto is an older, more relaxed persons gambit, and manual is a younger more envolved persons gambit. No harm in either activity. At this time I have 3 manual cars/trucks and an automatic work truck. I don’t like towing with a manual because they aren’t strong enough usually. That said I hate towing with an auto because they are so hell bent on upshifting. I lock them in gear or constantly move the flappy’s/shifter... anyways.

No harm either way from Ford by offering an auto or dct. So long as they also offer a great manual, demand will flow it’s capitalist goodness. Dodge and Chevy obviously get this too. The hellcat is not an auto-x player, but dodge still did the smart thing and offers a manual. I’d imagine their demographic is at best 10% of the hellcat order pool.

Again, as I don’t hear anyone explaining why, my problem with auto’s is that regardless of which mode they are in, they only shift fast when being driven wot, or braking heavy. If you are driving at 5-6/10th, as in a mild canyon run, they are lazy and shift out of synch with the rhythm dictated.

It’s like having a contractor that is pretty good, but takes 2-3 days longer on every project and always gets the paint 1-2 shades off. It’s not a deal breaker but doing it yourself when you get it done on time and the right color without blemish’s is more enjoyable regardless of the effort put-assuming you aren’t a putz and don’t screw it all up. And honestly, when you do something yourself, the flaws don’t show up as often because we all have an ego.

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Voltwings said:

For the sake of discussion, we typically see DCT on turbo cars where a loss of boost between shifts matters, but on a supercharger, how much benefit is there really to a DCT?

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It would still be beneficial for a supercharged car. Check out the VF supercharged Huracans.

THE_EVIL_TW1N said:

But why even bother manual shifting an auto (DCT or TQ conv) at all? It's like pretending to drive a manual transmission car

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That's exactly what it is; pretending to be power shifting a manual. Manually shifting them doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. It just adds a modicum of fun to an otherwise boring driving experience. The "benefit" of a DCT is that, when shifted manually, you can still get it wrong. You can perform an ill-timed shift that can upset traction (ahem, BMW), and you can actually stall a DCT in manual mode if you don't shift it back down to 1st when coming to a stop. So a DCT in manual mode still requires some mental skill for shift points and what gear to be in.

tt335ci03cobra said:

... I know a guy in his 70’s with terrible knees that have won auto-x and drag racing gamblers cups who still drive a stick like it’s a lost art of the aliens. That said I know a hundred people+ 18 and up that can’t come close to driving like he can, and they prefer auto’s. It makes sense. If you can’t drive the car any better with a manual why bother. I get that, I don’t get defending that position as if the manual driver is always mistaken/foolish. ...

I think auto is an older, more relaxed persons gambit, and manual is a younger more envolved persons gambit. ...

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That last statement is contradictory to what you said before it. I agree with the former. Older folks tend to like manuals a lot more than the millennials and younger folks. Most of them don't even want to learn how to drive a manual. Heck, a good number of them don't even want to learn how to drive. The only arguments for an automatic transmission is that it's now quicker in a straight line and it's easier in traffic. It's been proven time after time that a DCT is only marginally faster around a track than a manual. And that's only if the DCT car gets perfect laps. The times are so close that a missed apex, early braking, or bad corner exit would turn the race in favor of the other transmission. Automated manuals reduce driver fatigue on track and lead to more consistent times, not necessarily faster times.

It is literally insane how little some of you guys know or understand about this shit, but I'll give you points for having still somehow formulated opinions about it.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmission.htm

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

Lmao @DBK.

I think that the opinions are derived from driving experience, not mechanical knowledge. And honestly, the driving experience is all that matters when you are developing an opinion as a driver.

What I find crazy is, there is a known succession of transmission types and FACT that when all other variables stay equal, the more compartmentalized and automated, the quicker the car becomes. Yet somehow, people want to argue that the FACT isn't true and you're just a shitty driver who doesn't enjoy driving.

In general... who ****ing cares. Drive what you want and stop hating on people for liking something else. The whole topic is asinine at best.

Here is all you need to know, forget DBK's links lol: auto car = boring. manual car = fun.