Brake Fade at The Track?

Here are some pics of before and after.

I would also suggest cooling ducts. I am not familiar with the 2009 but I suspect you can remove the fog lights and install ducts to backing plates on your rotors.

This thread has info on another way to do it via ducts installed under the splitter (as long as your car is not lowered too much).

https://www.svtperformance.com/foru...-for-2014-shelby-gt500.1150225/#post-15742456

For backing plates, I would recommend the Vorshlag plates at:
https://vorshlag-store.com/collecti...197-3-diameter-brake-duct-backing-plates-pair

These are 14". They make 15" versions too.

I would also check your caliper piston seals to make sure they aren't melted.

Coz said:

I would also suggest cooling ducts.

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Great advice!

Coz said:

I would also check your caliper piston seals to make sure they aren't melted.

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My brake piston seals have been destroyed for years. If you road race at all, they are most likely shot. Those who built true Mustang track cars typically don't use them. They mainly keep dust and water out. Titanium plates might help, but if your car rarely sees rain, I wouldn't worry too much.

Coz said:

I would also suggest cooling ducts. I am not familiar with the 2009 but I suspect you can remove the fog lights and install ducts to backing plates on your rotors.

This thread has info on another way to do it via ducts installed under the splitter (as long as your car is not lowered too much).

https://www.svtperformance.com/foru...-for-2014-shelby-gt500.1150225/#post-15742456

For backing plates, I would recommend the Vorshlag plates at:
https://vorshlag-store.com/collecti...197-3-diameter-brake-duct-backing-plates-pair

These are 14". They make 15" versions too.

Click to expand...

Already got'em

Piston seals looked fine. I considered Ti plates but I don't think they're necessary and I've yet to hear from someone who tried them.

Anyways, some good news. I just got the new pads (HPS) and installed them on the old cut rotors, pedal feels firm and just like before. Initial bite is not what I was expecting but its ok.
There was a change of plans and so I cancelled the rotors. For now I'm gonna go with HPS for street and Carbotech for the track, next time I'll definitely upgrade the rotors.

Thank you guys for everything.

Sounds good. Keep us posted on how it works out on the track.

FWIW I have had success with Padgid Yellows for track use (they lasted 2 days). They are still streetable (have a bit of a squeak). I had tried Mintex, and Padgid blacks, neither of which survived. Fluid is Castrol SRF. Rotors are Gyrodisc. Car is FGT

You will be MUCH happier (and safer) with a Carbotech track pad vs the street pad that caused you the initial issues. Great choice to add cooling.

Black Cobra '99 said:

Already got'em
View attachment 1452302 View attachment 1452303

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While installing the air duct is better than nothing, You really need to close that gap to ensure the air is being forced through the center of the rotor.

debit_free_2010 said:

While installing the air duct is better than nothing, You really need to close that gap to ensure the air is being forced through the center of the rotor.

View attachment 1453233

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Looks like a custom set up. This is what I found off the shelf, and there is FTBR's kit which is similar.

EDIT: Actually the FTBR plates seal the back of the rotors nicely.

Follow up:
I installed the carbotech's the night before the event and took the car out for a drive. Once they warmed up I was in shock! They are aggressive and I can tell immediately they were meant for the track.

Apart from a little trouble with the IC pump, the car performed good on the track. The new brake pads were a lot better and the stopping power has increased over the HPS. On the second session I took the rotor temps right after a hot lap and fronts were 570* C and rears 480* C, XP10's are rated up to 898* C. Not a hint of brake fade, and I wasn't really pushing them.

The drive home almost drove me insane lol, I've never heard brakes sequel like this, and my wheels are now black.

Thumbs up! XP-10s are great on the track and stop on a dime. They justr get better as the day goes on. But the drive home will hurt your ear. I'm also surprised how many session that have lasted...2+ years (6 HPDE days) and they still have lots of meat on them.

Good to hear the new pads worked out. While the squeal going back home was irritating, it was probably for the best since the cold pads would scrape off the pad material deposited on your rotor when you bedded your Carbotechs when they were hot. Now when you put on the HPS pads, they will be relatively clean and ready to be re-bedded for the street.

As far as the full tilt bogie ducts, double check them to ensure some if the air doesn't end up on the hub or rotor surface. I find it hard to believe that a full 3" diameter duct fits in that area. An oval duct may be a better fit. Check out the Kenny Brown and Vorshlag ducts.

http://store.kennybrown.com/product...s-2005-2014-mustang-boss-302-and-shelby-gt500

https://vorshlag-store.com/collecti...197-3-diameter-brake-duct-backing-plates-pair

I'm kinda regretting getting the JLT ducts now. However, I'd be concerned about fitment when I go with a big brake kit, so I think I'm gonna stick with JLT for now

So I took out the CT pads and found something interesting...
Notice the cracks.






I also got these patterns on the rear rotors...


These are on the right side. Now that I think about it, temps were a little higher on one side for both the tires and rotors, what could this mean?
I do have coilovers so I'm thinking maybe I need to shift some weight around?

Not sure. Does your track have a lot of tight left turns? Do you brake into the turn itself (i.e. ride the brakes)?

Do the left and right set of tires show different wear patterns, rubber pickup, etc?

Does your brake duct on the left side fit tighter against the rotor than the right side? While that might explain the rotor temp but probably not the different tire temps.

Just a dumb new guy here but I thought dot 5 and dot 5.1 were for non abs equipped cars due to if its actuated the rapid pulsations will cause is to foam up and (airate). Any chance this is the case?

Coz said:

Not sure. Does your track have a lot of tight left turns? Do you brake into the turn itself (i.e. ride the brakes)?

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Yes, for both.

Coz said:

Do the left and right set of tires show different wear patterns, rubber pickup, etc?

Does your brake duct on the left side fit tighter against the rotor than the right side? While that might explain the rotor temp but probably not the different tire temps.

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No.

ssvt500 said:

Just a dumb new guy here but I thought dot 5 and dot 5.1 were for non abs equipped cars due to if its actuated the rapid pulsations will cause is to foam up and (airate). Any chance this is the case?

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Thats true for DOT 5, DOT 5.1 is fine with ABS.

I doubt aeration of the fluid would cause the effects in the pictures. He didn't mention any soft pedal during his track day. But I am curious if he flushed his 5.1 and went to the Motul RBF600 or similar.

Not that it has much to do with the issues you mentioned, I note that your rotor is not the StopTech slotted you said you had ordered.

One other thing that I noticed that I forget to mention. The JLT duct that you installed does not cover the entire rotor.

This results in the tie rod end being exposed to more radiant heat from the rotor. Not sure about your year GT500, but the 13-14s had backing plates on the front that protected the tie rod end.

https://lmr.com/item/M2005MSVT/Mustang-Front-Brake-Backing-Plate-GT500-Style-M-2005-MSVT

While the JLT duct could arguably promote more cooling, the fact that it does not seal the hub area means that whatever cooling occurs is not as effective.

That's why I would recommend the Vorshlag back plate. It directs the air to the center of the rotor and is wide enough to protect the tie rod end.