The best looking R Model and the one that made the record books of racing history

1995COBRA-R · Aug 23, 2017

I never thought this would happen.

I always thought that an early 1965 GT350 was next down in line from the GT350R. The early 1965's also had some racing parts.

Now last weekend, the 1965-1966 "street cars" have been getting solid bids. A friend sold one that was maybe 80% correct for $145,000 (net).

It's not that I didn't like the 1965 look as I raced one for 20 years and enjoyed every second.

flattrack53 · Aug 30, 2017

1995COBRA-R said:
I never thought this would happen.

I always thought that an early 1965 GT350 was next down in line from the GT350R. The early 1965's also had some racing parts.

Now last weekend, the 1965-1966 "street cars" have been getting solid bids. A friend sold one that was maybe 80% correct for $145,000 (net).

It's not that I didn't like the 1965 look as I raced one for 20 years and enjoyed every second.

65R's are bringing 900-1.2 depending on the car.
65's are bringing 325-450k depending on the car.
66 carryovers are bringing up to 250k depending on the car
66's are bringing 115-200 depending on the car

65R's are absolutely the ultimate R-model in my book but I love the 93,95 and 00r's. They are all so unique in different ways

1995COBRA-R · Sep 2, 2017

flattrack53 said:
65R's are bringing 900-1.2 depending on the car.
65's are bringing 325-450k depending on the car.
66 carryovers are bringing up to 250k depending on the car
66's are bringing 115-200 depending on the car

65R's are absolutely the ultimate R-model in my book but I love the 93,95 and 00r's. They are all so unique in different ways

I'd say a very correct with paperwork 1965 GT350R (36 made) could go for $900,000. Everyone knows them.

I'd say the early 1965 GT350's (with the original parts and paperwork) may go to $400,000 (less than 200 made). It better be in the Registry with all of the paperwork.

I'd guess that you are adding the 1965 GT350 "carryover" with the 1966 GT350? It's the same car. Maybe 1250 cars? Up to $250K may be correct for a dozen cars but not the rest. I'd go $150,000 on a good day for one in proper good condition.

The car that I am talking about had two engine items off my old race car plus old paint and many other problems. It is as best a 80% car. It's a C-.

The 1966 GT350H with papers and a 4-speed is maybe $125,000. It's less for the automatic car ( 25% less).

I've raced them. I've owned one. They are all solid lifter cars that require continual maintenance. The original ones had rear drum brakes. They were a uni-body car that would bend without a steel frame piece that connects the front and rear uni-body.

Not one of the race cars use the 1965-1968 front spindles. Everyone has the big bearing 1969-1970 spindles.

flattrack53 · Sep 3, 2017

- I know a specific GT350R that had an offer of 1.2 made on it very recently by a high end collector/reseller. That offer was denied and he came back with trading a competition cobra if the owner of the GT350R would come back with cash on top. The current owner just has no interest in selling...

- A turd of a 65 Shelby GT350 is bringing 350k. The early advanced prototype gt350's will bring 650-700k.

- A 65 Shelby is a 65 Shelby... They had 252 Carryover Shelbys from 65 titled at 66's. So they are considered 66 Carryover's. Most of the carryovers range within 200-250k. The carryovers are virtually the only 66's that I would have an interest in owning since most of them carry the unique parts from the 65's. If it wasn't a 65 Shelby or an early 66 carryover; I would just look for a k-code fastback.

1995COBRA-R said:
I'd say a very correct with paperwork 1965 GT350R (36 made) could go for $900,000. Everyone knows them.

I'd say the early 1965 GT350's (with the original parts and paperwork) may go to $400,000 (less than 200 made). It better be in the Registry with all of the paperwork.

I'd guess that you are adding the 1965 GT350 "carryover" with the 1966 GT350? It's the same car. Maybe 1250 cars? Up to $250K may be correct for a dozen cars but not the rest. I'd go $150,000 on a good day for one in proper good condition.

The car that I am talking about had two engine items off my old race car plus old paint and many other problems. It is as best a 80% car. It's a C-.

The 1966 GT350H with papers and a 4-speed is maybe $125,000. It's less for the automatic car ( 25% less).

I've raced them. I've owned one. They are all solid lifter cars that require continual maintenance. The original ones had rear drum brakes. They were a uni-body car that would bend without a steel frame piece that connects the front and rear uni-body.

Not one of the race cars use the 1965-1968 front spindles. Everyone has the big bearing 1969-1970 spindles.

TFStang · Sep 3, 2017

When was the last time a 65 Shelby was affordable as in well under $100K? Seems like prices have been high for quite a while.

flattrack53 · Sep 4, 2017

It was either 1990 or 1991, my dad took 5s271 to Barrett Jackson in Arizona... It brought 94k but didn't meet the reserve. It was during the time of the Gulf War and I remember my dad mentioning they made some big announcement the day the car went across the block and virtually nothing that day sold at Barrett. Fortunately, he kept the car and still has it to this day and has no intensions on selling it again. So I would say early 90's was probably the last time they brought under a 100k.

PaxtonShelby · Sep 4, 2017

Flattrack speaks the truth. And he knows his numbers. Knowing there were 252 carryover cars means he knows his stuff! Nice work!

1995COBRA-R · Sep 5, 2017

flattrack53 said:
- I know a specific GT350R that had an offer of 1.2 made on it very recently by a high end collector/reseller. That offer was denied and he came back with trading a competition cobra if the owner of the GT350R would come back with cash on top. The current owner just has no interest in selling...

- A turd of a 65 Shelby GT350 is bringing 350k. The early advanced prototype gt350's will bring 650-700k.

- A 65 Shelby is a 65 Shelby... They had 252 Carryover Shelbys from 65 titled at 66's. So they are considered 66 Carryover's. Most of the carryovers range within 200-250k. The carryovers are virtually the only 66's that I would have an interest in owning since most of them carry the unique parts from the 65's. If it wasn't a 65 Shelby or an early 66 carryover; I would just look for a k-code fastback.

1995COBRA-R · Sep 5, 2017

First, the SCM value guide on a 65R (1 of 36) is $880,000. If you want to offer $1,200,000, you should do so. Nothing jumps up 50% in 6 months without being a bubble.

If you can give my the number of the car, I can look it up in my Registry book.

- A turd of a 65 Shelby GT350 is bringing 350k.
Second,
This makes me thank that you are broker and not a buyer? Just asking.

I've seen so many "restored" cars with a Vin of an original one that was rebuilt on another frame that you can call me suspicious. I remember when some guys in CT would brag about a 1965 Shelby plate that they converted to a car.

The recent SCM collector guide calls them $400,000, but a turd is not the value. What kind of turd are you talking about?

I know how to check them. The two VIns on the inner aprons (one hidden) better match the car. There are two numbers on the frame. There are many more specific things (dates for major parts).

The Shelby plate has been reproduced for over 12 years.

The recent auctions are showing lower prices.

Scott Cherry · Sep 5, 2017

Good to hear the terrific race pedigrees the 95R have! I really enjoy my 95R. I also really enjoy my 2000R. I'd say I prefer the looks to the 95.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

598 · Sep 5, 2017

I bought my 95 R with a SCCA log book and race winning history for less than 1/2 what a 2000R was bringing at the time. I like the bold look of the 2000R, but I more enjoy the understated look of the 95. Seems like any time I have it out, someone walks up and quietly asks, "is it a real one?" Those who know, know.

flattrack53 · Sep 9, 2017

I didn't offer 1.2 million for a 65r... I just know the guy who made the offer and I know the car... The car is probably of one of the most valuable ones of the 65r's and the gentleman who made the offer certainly has the money. I will not disclose which car nor the person who made the offer. But if I made a mention of the persons name; if you knew "anything" of mustangs or collectors I can guarantee you would recognize the name. I can look up anything in a registry. They only cost $200 and quite a bit of the information is incorrect (or maybe I just can't comprehend what I'm reading).. Some of the information written was used to help some people with the cars that they had (Probably not true because all humans are honest). I'm not accusing anyone by any means... I can rattle off handfuls of 5s and 5r cars that aren't what they are claimed to be (maybe I'm joking and maybe I'm not)... Some aren't even K-codes and some aren't even true 65 fastbacks but everyone believes them to be original (this actually made me laugh). But again; I won't list what cars they are either (or maybe this is a joke/lie as well).... And I'm sure there is a lot more cars out there than I know of with the same issues (or maybe not).

Find a 65 Shelby that is restored or a very original non BS car for 350k and post it to prove me wrong. In the comment; look at recent auctions; you can refer to my paragraph above for my answer to that ( I also won't mention which auction I am referring to).

I am definitely not a broker nor a buyer but I obviously understand the market/. If I had the money I would certainly own a 65 or a 66 carryover like I previously mentioned.

Yes, we have all seen many re-pop tags on Shelby's. Many of them are re-bodied cars or have virtually none of the original parts on them.

People have been reproducing vin tags since the 80's. Some of them are very hard to spot being a fake tag and some of them you can spot from a far.

1995COBRA-R said:
First, the SCM value guide on a 65R (1 of 36) is $880,000. If you want to offer $1,200,000, you should do so. Nothing jumps up 50% in 6 months without being a bubble.

If you can give my the number of the car, I can look it up in my Registry book.

- A turd of a 65 Shelby GT350 is bringing 350k.
Second,
This makes me thank that you are broker and not a buyer? Just asking.

I've seen so many "restored" cars with a Vin of an original one that was rebuilt on another frame that you can call me suspicious. I remember when some guys in CT would brag about a 1965 Shelby plate that they converted to a car.

The recent SCM collector guide calls them $400,000, but a turd is not the value. What kind of turd are you talking about?

I know how to check them. The two VIns on the inner aprons (one hidden) better match the car. There are two numbers on the frame. There are many more specific things (dates for major parts).

The Shelby plate has been reproduced for over 12 years.

The recent auctions are showing lower prices.

PaxtonShelby · Sep 9, 2017

Nothing sexier than a '65 R-model ripping around the track....except maybe a real original GT40...or a Cobra (289 or 427 - doesn't really matter! ).

1995COBRA-R · Sep 10, 2017

flattrack53 said:
....I can rattle off handfuls of 5s and 5r cars that aren't what they are claimed to be (maybe I'm joking and maybe I'm not)... Some aren't even K-codes and some aren't even true 65 fastbacks but everyone believes them to be original (this actually made me laugh)....

....Find a 65 Shelby that is restored or a very original non BS car for 350k and post it to prove me wrong. In the comment; look at recent auctions; you can refer to my paragraph above for my answer to that ( I also won't mention which auction I am referring to).

I think you are saying that you find a $1.2M 65R as well as a $400K+ 1965 GT350 (in poor condition) to be a good investment?

I think that we agree on most everything else (lots of fakes in the market), but I think they are in bubble territory. The asset class of these cars can sink (i.e., the Hemi cars), or a general black swan event can happen (the entire market will suffer).

I may be just bored with them. I've owned and/or raced about 12 of them. I still remember the wrench size for the removal of most parts. I know a guy that owned and parted out over sixty 1969/1970 Mustangs. [He would buy three junk cars, build one good car, and sell the extra parts].

I'll get back to you on the auctions. I DVR'd much of Mecum Monterrey auction which I watched 20% of it (zooming over the old lead sleds and used exotics). It was not good for some cars. I'll study the upcoming Sports Car Market Monterrey issue to help get a current opinion.

I think the Federal Reserve interest rate policy has inflated many asset classes. Many guys have said to me that they are not interested in staying in low-interest CD's or short-term T-bonds since collector cars go up 14% per year.

I am more cautious than you are.

BTW, I did store my 95R in a safe place with hurricane winds threatening my neighborhood.

Yet, I wonder how many non-authentic collector cars will be destroyed in the hurricane?

mrmustang · Oct 8, 2017

1995COBRA-R said:
I think you are saying that you find a $1.2M 65R as well as a $400K+ 1965 GT350 (in poor condition) to be a good investment?

Doc, you and I, and many others know the market will eventually collapse in on itself, and those buying such cars to "boost their portfolio" are just fooling themselves. The days of us going out and buying something just because we like it, then flogging it at the track are almost gone (#99 may be back on the market soon, I'm watching for it ) for a large majority of true enthusiasts. Again, lost to those who look at the car as "an investment that can't lose". The older crowd, those with the disposable income to now spend 1M on a 60's car are dwindling, their kids, while some still have a passion for the older cars of the 60's, are also dwindling, instead, they look at the cars of their youth, Honda Accords, Acrua "R" models, NSX's, even Delorean. So to even post what a good investment these cars are to a new buyer in todays market seems a bit ungenuine, unless of course you are the current owner of one, and expect to sell it soon, in which case, that makes perfect sense.

1995COBRA-R said:
I know a guy that owned and parted out over sixty 1969/1970 Mustangs. [He would buy three junk cars, build one good car, and sell the extra parts].

Heck, I parted out 12 71-73 Mustangs while restoring that 73 3B Sky Blue convertible for my son. Who then of course sold it and bought a Subaru Outback when he got old enough to drive (go figure)

1995COBRA-R said:
Yet, I wonder how many non-authentic collector cars will be destroyed in the hurricane?

Plenty of "vintage" cars have now been lost forever due to the Hurricanes, as they were from Katrina, some got crushed, some got bought up and await restoration, some now overseas as their salvage/destruction titles prohibiting them from being restored here. The new disasters just bring the whole cycle of life and death for them back to the forefront and into the limelight again. No surprise there, now is there.

Bill S

1995COBRA-R · Oct 12, 2017

I agree Bill.

I agree that the past performance in the car market is a not good indication of future results.

I also think the recent 54th record high in the stock market this year is not a good indication of future results.

I am going with holding cash until the normal correction.

Handlebar Moustache · Nov 3, 2017

I remember watching (and especially hearing) the '00 R review on C&D television back when it came out. To me, that was the birth of a new Mustang era and what was to come with the 5.4 modular. Z06 vette owners used to be visibly uncomfortable during conversations about the '00R and John Coletti. It's still the sexiest R IMO.

1995COBRA-R · Nov 4, 2017

Handlebar Moustache said:
..It's still the sexiest R IMO.

The sexiest 00R has a few wrinkles now, after almost 18 years.

It's winning professional races that will be important going forward. The wins are all on video with plenty of pictures of the famous 1995 Cobra R.

TFStang · Nov 5, 2017

The 00R is aging gracefully if you ask me. I think this car is better looking today than it was when it first came out "wrinkles" and all. I think it will stand the test of time as one of the best looking Mustangs ever produced from the blue oval. Mod Mustangs are pretty sick looking. The 00R is....well...perfection.

1995COBRA-R · Nov 5, 2017

TFStang said:
The 00R is aging gracefully if you ask me. I think this car is better looking today than it was when it first came out "wrinkles" and all. I think it will stand the test of time as one of the best looking Mustangs ever produced from the blue oval. Mod Mustangs are pretty sick looking. The 00R is....well...perfection.

It will sure be a better sell with pictures.

I'll be honest as I think the new 2018 GT looks great. It comes from the factory with a 460 Hp engine for $36K:

5.0L Ti-VCT V8
The 5.0L Mustang V8: a legendary engine revamped to get you maximum power. How did we make that happen? By adding a new dual-fuel, high-pressure direct injection and low-pressure port fuel injection. Which not only translates into 460 horsepower, but also higher-rpm power at 420 lb.-ft. of torque.

Who can argue with this?

The best looking R Model and the one that made the record books of racing history

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